Reply to Those who initiated divorce or separation, how did you do it?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Please also recognize that we can't make - it's unfair to expect - people to change.  They are who they are - either love them as they are or don't (that's up to you) but be realistic about how much your counseling fixes rely on someone "changing".  I think couples counseling can be extraordinarily useful when problems can be addressed by changing partner's perceptions and framing of issues, but I think it's of very limited value if you expect that the counselor will just "tell him|her to get some ambition"...or whatever it is that's bothering you.  [/quote]

i am the bolded PP above.  thank you for writing this. i've been trying to articulate this. [b]i don't want spouse to change their core self.  it's more of how we interact and frame those interactions so that we both are getting what we need and deserve from each other in our relationship.[/b]  [/quote]

So, continuing the conversation...

When I say things like "change" - and I will use the example from my dead marriage - I mean things like constant negativity, or what was an unhappy, insecure (jealous and controlling) outlook.  Those aren't things I could order my ex-wife to change, nor could a counselor. If she'd recognized them herself, and she wanted to go to individual counseling to get them fixed, then maybe then she could have achieved change.  Some of those were things were things I probably could have learned to ignore - indeed, if I had learned to simply not engage in some of those things and let them suck me in/down,  we would have survived.

Of course, there were problems I had that were all mine - of my own making - and even though I blamed them on the marriage, they followed me.  Of course, when I was alone, there was nobody else to blame.  Eventually, I had to work on them to make them go away - and while I've got improvement, I haven't completely made them go away.  I've learned some self-acceptance, and when I was dating my now-wife, I put those out on display and my own self-acceptance out on display.  I understand some things might be deal-breakers, and that's OK, but I accept me for me, and I accept her as she is, which isn't 100% perfect in every way.

I think this is the thing people get confused by in the "Settling" debate about a partner.  My DW is truly a fabulous fit for me.  I love her dearly.  On all the key issues and questions we really are in-step with each other, share values and enjoy one another.  There are some things neither of us likes about the other person.  However, we aren't perfect soul mates and we don't need to be in 100% agreement about everything.  Some disagreements can just be, because they don't impact what we do day-to-day, how we raise our child, where we live, etc.   You "choose your battles" - you decide what is important, and what is not, and you choose to ignore and not worry about the things that truly aren't important.

Which circles back to my first paragraph above: you have to do some long hard thinking - and a counselor, often in individual sessions, can make an excellent sounding board for this - about what exactly it is you want from your partner, whether that's a realistic or reasonable expectation, and what it is that's bothering you about them, and why.  I think many people, very often, express what it is they are upset about very poorly...[b]largely because they themselves don't understand what they want or are upset about.[/b]  There are so many examples on DCUM of this - bordering on [self-?]parody or low quality trolling - that it kills me.  There are many many things I wish I'd simply not reacted to, or not engaged with in my first marriage - things that weren't important - and things which were important that I should've simply stood my ground on instead of seeking "communication and compromise" (because I engage a lot of silly game-playing and frustration in doing so).

I would urge you to see a counselor alone - not because you're nuts or you're the person who needs to change, or anything like that, but because you are the person who is unhappy.  And sometimes processing what makes you unhappy will help you identify the issues more clearly.  Sometimes it turns out you're OK with your spouse after all (gee, I thought I wanted this from you, but I realize that I don't, or I don't need to get it from you).  Sometimes it helps clarify that you don't need to waste anyone's precious time and emotional energy fighting the tar baby.  [/quote]

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