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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Oh my gawd, how did I miss this gem of a post...

[quote=Anonymous]The definition of social class by money and a diploma conveys the hollow nature of society in this country.[/quote]

Money is a proxy for the amount of contribution that a person makes to society. While acknowledging outliers and exceptions, people who contribute more in general get more money. The market based economy of the US is the best manifestation of this principle in the world. One notable exception is when a person is a student. But in this situation, a diploma is recognition of a person's educational achievements. Therefore, money and diploma are very real and substantial indications of a person's achievements, the exact opposite of hollow.

[quote=Anonymous]Integrity, character, the cultivation of others and self meant something, but there is a structural rot in modern society.[/quote]

So how do you assess that a person practices integrity, character and "cultivation of others" in their every day life? Secondly, how are these more important than a persons contribution to society in terms of material contribution and advancement of knowledge?  While I am not arguing that integrity/character/charity are not important, they are certainly not more important, and definitely not the opposites of money and knowledge.

[quote=Anonymous]
It is akin to the institutional corruption that Larry Lessig talks about lately.  In pursuing good and bad, people ignore institutional ethics and design.  One that values materialism, consumerism and the vapid idea that selfishness leads to a greater good.[/quote]

Pursuing good leads to pursuit of ethics and design. You have China as a shining example of this: introduction of free market elements have led to more pursuits of good, which has directly led to increasing demands people have on the ethics of their government, and regulations to improve their environment. The pursuit of ideals for ideals' sake is what led that country astray under communism. Ideals without basis in reality or natural human nature is dangerous. 
[/quote]

I will respond to your three responses below.  Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.

1. Yes, money and education are proxies.  By themselves, they likely provide necessary but not sufficient public and private goods to nourish a healthy and vibrant society.  Having a society that is institutionally designed to prize just money and education is in my opinion hollow.  If what you propose is true, then the country should just be a plutocracy.  I don't think that was the design envisioned in the American experiment of governance.

2. I didn't say that integrity, character and caring for others and self were more important than other things, but that they are necessary components in good institutional design that are less and less valued by current US society relative to money and (in pedigree obsessed DMV) education.  Just because it is more difficult to measure, and i suspect, to show off to others, as well as less remunerative in a lot of cases, it shouldn't be ignored.  Certainly i didn't say that money and education are inherently hollow.  It is the pursuit of these by society without good judgement, character, integrity and caring that is hollow.

3. I think you're arguing a straw man here because i never suggested that ideals should be substituted for pragmatism.  Money and education again are necessary but not sufficient.  Models of socioeconomic status presented here show dimensions only along money and education.  That is an institutional design that herds people into pursuing those stated goals.  Many people will realize that they need more to be fulfilled in their lives, but the way that they actualize this won't be along social norms because there is no explicit prescription for it.  [/quote]

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