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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Oh, please.  The private sector surveils average Americans far more than the government does.  They know your most intimate personal habits and information - where you live, where you work, your shopping habits, your medical issues, what size clothes you wear, what your vices are, your sexual orientation and habits, the places you go, who your friends and family are, what organizations you are involved in, et cetera et cetera et cetera....

That kind of blows away the whole "privacy" issue.[/quote]

It's different.  Most of their information comes from the use of credit cards or internet.  This is a choice that you make, and you can decide who you want to deal with.  I don't think any company knows my "most intimate personal habits".[/quote]

You are living in delusion. Google knows way more about you than the USG does.  I somewhat agree with the PP that the risks are more Kafka than Orwell to the extent that once you're in the bureaucracy, it's hard to exit it. I disagree as to the evil intent. The public expects two contradictory things - they want all bad things stopped and immediate answers when something bad does happen, but they don't want to be "watched" and want openness and transparency. They also have a simplistic view that "valid suspects" spring from the earth fully formed with big signs on their necks, so you can create a list of valid "targets" without the tools to give you the situational awareness that there is plot in the first place. So they write laws that essentially say "please make omelettes but do not break any eggs".

Google, Facebook, Apple and other companies just do whatever they want, change their agreements with the user base with no recourse, and don't have any obligations to uphold Constitutional principles. They just want to make money.

I know which one concerns me more. [/quote]

Google doesn't know way more about me.  I disable google ad tracking and don't use their services.  What I put in email that may or may not cross their servers is something that I think about before I hit send.  Google does not know what size clothes I wear or my "intimate personal life".  Amazon on the other hand knows a lot about my consumer purchase behavior, but who cares?  I don't care that they know my shoes size.  On the other hand if I want to buy something that I might be embarrassed about, say hypothetically "Tattoo Biker Zombie Magazine", I can go to a magazine shop and pay in cash.

The point is that all of it is my choice, and I have the power to do that on my computer and with my wallet.

On the other hand, the government knows who I am calling and what I visit on the web.  The only one who knows that is my telecom provider, but it is illegal for them to do anything with that information -- except to give it to the government.  There is only one entity which can directly tap my phone and listen to my conversations.  There is only one entity that can track my car as it drives down any major road in the DC area.  The government can see where I am going by my phone, if they want they can turn on the mic and listen to what I am saying, without me knowing.  Crazy.  And while it is practical to make choices about using Google, I don't really have the ability to give up driving or telephones without severely restricting my freedom.  I suppose I could communicate by mail and ride a bike everywhere.  Except they can read my mail.
[/quote]

Hahaha - you would be shocked at how much google does know about you, and you are naive if you think you have beat them at that game.[/quote]

Since I am a computer security expert I will ignore your derision. This stuff is not witchcraft to me. [/quote]

Well, good for you.  If you are actually any good at what you do (and I have news for you, a majority of "computer security experts" couldn't find their asses with both hands where it comes to actual IT security) - if you are actually any good at what you do then you are among the 0.01% who the private sector isn't spying on.  Everyone else is, however hosed.  So your argument that it's not an issue certainly didn't go away for the remaining hundreds of millions of Americans.[/quote]

Well I guess your pant size is out there on the Internet.  Oh, horror.[/quote]

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