Reply to New Charter Schools for Next Year?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

Because the Kipp parents took the time to fill out an application form (one assumes that they can read or if not care enough to have someone else read the form) and go through the application process hence they have already made some commitment/investment in their child's education, the students wear uniform and obey the rules, if not there are consequences, misbehaving students are just transferred to another school because DCPS has to serve all children at their neighborhood  (high schools routinely transfer students using "safety transfers", some high school in DC have specific wings for SpEd students with Emotional Disturbance who although not in the same classes for the most part interact with other students in the hallways, lunch, and during some activities, some high schools have "gang" issues within the school, many parents are non-responsive to intervention, I could go on. There is no way that Charters teach the same children as the majority of high schools, they have "SOME" of the same students but they have more diversity within their population. by diversity I'm not taking about race.  If anyone does not believe this just go and take some time to volunteer at one of the cities low-performing high schools or watch the Frontline video about "Metropolitan high school", most of those students had been expelled already, this school was their last option.

Is the the children's fault, no, but honestly at Ballou, Coolidge, Anacostia, Dunbar they are dealing with completely different issues that are above and beyond what an "effective teacher"  can do in the classroom by teaching a lesson on "Shakespeare".  It all sounds good on paper, but it really is the "students STUPID". There are no miracles here, and once we begin to realize that we can begin the hard work. Charters and DCPS are different and need different resources and services to help all children be successful. [/quote]

How much time have you actually spent at Ballou and Anacostia high schools?  And over what period of time?  As someone who has spent a lot of time in both in the last 5 years, I agree with the PP who said you are clueless if you only speak in absolutes.  Both schools have come a very long way in the last few years, and you can tell the moment you walk in the front door how much has changed.  Better attendance, slightly rising test scores and improving graduation rates at both also tell the story, although dramatic results will take more time to see.  Point is, there are better ways of educating the most at risk kids than DC was doing.  Lessons can be learned from charters, and also from other regular public schools.  Stop talking ignorantly as if there are no improvements that can lead to better results for these kids.  Neither school will probably ever look like School Without Walls, but there are still dramatic improvements that can be made.

Re: Kipp, guess what?  Parents have to fill out paperwork regardless of what schools their kids go to.  And Kipp does major outreach to Wards 7 & 8.  Are you really that uninformed that it requires being a typical Type A DCUM parent to hear about and apply to Kipp if you're a really under served/high risk parent?  Sometimes even parents who, sadly, don't give a crap what school their kid goes to, if the kid can get to Kipp without parent taking them, there are kids who fit that exact profile.

Which leads me to ask, those of you blaming the kids and dismissing the possibility of actual improvements in the outcomes for those kids, how much time have you actually spent in Ballou, Anacostia, or Kipp schools?  Because it sounds like you don't know Kipp's population and have no clue how far the other two have come.  Obnoxious of you to be so dismissive without knowing what you're talking about.[/quote]

I'm not blaming the kids, I'm blaming those that keep saying that the population is the same at both schools is the same so what works at a Charter works for DCPS!!!!  I've spent lots of time in SE because I live there and know plenty about what is going on. I know that those parents who are invested for the most part choose to send their children elsewhere, that leaves those that remain and their teachers that remain working with a population that require immense support. But as most people blame the teachers not much changes. There is a reason that the "Effective Teachers" are at the schools west of the park and it is not because the teachers, administrators, and community activists who work in education are not doing anything. If you are reading at a 3rd grade education in high school you need a lot of help. [/quote]

1st off, you do know a lot by being in a neighborhood, but you do not see a lot of key aspects of a conversation like this unless you are IN the schools.  You have made statements that show you do NOT necessarily know who is in some of these schools (like Kipp), nor do you understand that some of the practices that are successfl in Anacaostia and Ballou (and maybe other challenged DC schools, but those are th e2 you mentioned that I know the best)  were introduced into DC as lessons learned from charters around the country.  Which is why...

Even though I agree with a lot of what you just said, the place where I disagree is that you continue to see things as ONLY black and white.  Either people are saying "the kids are all the same kids" and you say "they're NOT the same kids".  (or lack thereof) of the teachers".  To say it the way you do leaves no room for two facts:  1) schools like Kipp DO HAVE MAJORITY STUDENTS WHO WOULD OTHERISE BE THE FUTURE BALLOU STUDENTS.  You seem to not understand just how much recuriting and handholding some Kipp schools do to get the hardest to reach students in the door.  I don't know what your specific Kipp experience is but I really have to wonder how many Kipp parents you've interacted with if you're so convinced that Kipp only has the parents motivated enogh to do, well, anything to get their kids into school.  That is simply incorrect.  I'm sad to say Kipp and many schools like it have plenty of parents who frankly don't care where their kids go to school or if they go at all... they just want them out of hte house all day. But really targeted outreach can and does actually reach some kids from homes like that.  You are right that the % of kids from homes like that also matters, and schools like Ballou do indeed get kids who have been in many other schools and that is their last resort.  That also matters and impacts what is possible in the classroom in many ways.  But it does NOT mean that charters are not learning anything useful and applicable to Kramer Middle or Anacostia high school.  It does not mean that a new Principal at Anacostia can't be introduced to new ideas (or bring new ideas with him/her) to the school when they arrive about what needs to change to be better able to educated the same, highest risk kids effectively.  Which leads to the other not black and white issue you don't allow room for:

2) Some of what works at charters also works at Kramer and Ballou.  Charters having the ability to kick out their worst students (which some of they do way too often) does NOT make all of their approaches useless or ineffective.  And the same idea applied in 2 equivalent schools (like Ballou and Anacostia) will still almost always look somewhat different, since each school has it's unique combination of different strengths and challenges that require adapting a model to that school.

The leadership's support (or lack thereof) of the school staff when facing difficulties matters.  The way the school deals with discipline matters.  And some charters DO figure out strategies that WORK in schools like Anacostia and Ballou.  Since I've been working in public schools (the last 10 yrs) it has consistently (not always, but most of the time) been the charters I've worked with who have tried new/creative approaches to things like discipline, student support, school climate /environment (uniforms or no; how are class transitions managed; what do you do about the student who is clearly a grede or 2 behind their current grade academically or socially; etc).  If I had to oversimplify why that seems to be the case, this won't surprise anyone in DC but it mostly boils down to the ability to hire, fire, and try whatever people and approaches you think are necessary to educate your kids.  That is a definite oversimplification, but there is a freedom there that has an impact.  And Anacostia which is NOT a charter, has made the progress it's made in the last 4 years in some unorthodox ways, but many of those ways seem to really work to improve many outcomes.

My main point is to point out why it doesn't help anything move forward to act like charters are charters, DCPS is DCPS, and never will there be any usefulness in comparing them because their populations are different.  It is just not that simple and you miss some great opportunities to learn in both directions.[/quote]

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