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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I would continue standing up for people against her unfair and inappropriate comments. Even if she still thinks it, I don't want to hear someone sh*t on a perfectly nice human for no reason other than their own incorrect biases.

If she told me to shut up and respect her perspective as a mom, I'd tell her her observations are incorrect at best and saying mean things about family members is inappropriate.  [/quote]

Based on history, I can probably predict that if I challenge her, it will extend into a 15 minute liturgy of her trying to convince me otherwise.  I guess if my goal is to not hear her negative commentary, PP's suggestion to change the topic would likely be more effective.

But I think I always hold on to the goal that I will be able to change her perspective.  But she never does - at least not from me challenging her.  I also feel obligated to stand up for this person that I also have a good relationship with.  But that often brings out some competitive type of vibe from my mom or makes her spew more hate about the person. She wants me to side with her.[/quote]

In that case it's easy. Tell her you can't talk to someone who speaks so ill of others, and say goodbye. If she really, really wants to talk to you, she'll manage to change a little bit. And if she cannot, you won't get to hear any of it anyway.

Also, it's not true that old people can't stop speaking ill of others. Your mother doesn't have Alzheimer's. She's just never gotten strong enough pressure to make her stop, which is different.

So many relationship issues are a question of who has the most willpower and is prepared to follow-through on consequences. People don't like to admit it, but that's how it works. I have more willpower than my mother, and over time, she's had to get used to leaving her back-stabbing, ultra-negative, nasty, occasionally racist and definitely classist remarks out of our conversations, because I will ALWAYS call her out on them. I will and have hung up on her. I am the stronger person in that relationship.

I don't have the same relationship with others: my father and husband don't let themselves get brow-beaten, but since they're usually positive and decent people, there's no reason for me to call them out in the first place. My maternal aunts and uncle are just like my mother (that family is a viper's nest), but since I'm not their "safety person", they usually don't lose their filter when they talk to me. Their own kids, on the other hand, behave in the same way towards them that I behave towards my mother :-)

We all create our own dynamics over time with each person in our circle. It's hard to change the dynamic, but it can be done.[/quote]

I want this to be true.  I have to work on this.  I've only been this direct with my mom on a few things. My mom is very sensitive.  It doesn't take much for her to get depressed.  She tries to make me her "safe space" where she can say all of her unsaid ugly thoughts and keeps telling me how much better she feels afterwards for finally unloading it off her chest.   But I don't think it actually helps her, it just keeps her stuck in a negative loop. [/quote]

OP, I can so relate to this.  My mom has always been critical of others.  It tends to be more family now but I remember defending HS classmates I didn't even like myself because she was so weirdly cirtical of them- I think she was envious of them or their moms.  It was so weird.  And I agree that I think she sees me as her therapist or something, "I just need to vent!" and tries to make me feel bad for not being part of it.  I actually am starting therapy myself because I sometimes feel like I need to unload (who doesn't?) but don't want to fall into the same pattern with my own kids.[/quote]

Yes, it is very weird!  My mom was the same. And good for you for starting therapy to try to break that cycle.  Therapy has helped me.

Her criticism of others, especially your peers, also translates into anxiety for you.  Because it leads to the assumption that everyone is constantly judging and criticizing (like your mom).[/quote]

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