Reply to Metro vs Paramount (vs other top clubs)

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Last place in gold (Open) is still better than first place in silver (National), right?

The question that should be asked is that why Metro 15 and 16, with so much talent, didn't even qualify for Open.[/quote]
I guess as an academic exercise, every team in Open is better than every team in National, and every team in National is better than every team in USA, and on and on. But if you know anything about club volleyball (or sports in general), you know it’s never that clear cut. The “stronger” team doesn’t always win and the performance of a team at any given event requires playing well at the right times, staying injury free, and perhaps a little luck. This applies to getting an Open bid (or any bid, really) or doing well at Nationals. Since we live in the real world, there are a lot of blurred lines.

Depending on the divisions, I think there are often a lot of pretty similar teams in adjacent divisions. For example, I’d argue that the top half of the USA division in almost every age group at Nationals is stronger than the bottom half of the National division in that same age group. Bids only available at qualifiers are much harder to get than the ones the regions allocate.

Even in Open it’s not always the strongest team on paper that wins. In 2022, Alamo 15 Premier didn’t earn an open bid at a qualifier but they applied for and got one of the at large bids. They were seeded 28th at the start of the tournament but ended up winning the 15 Open national championship. I don’t think they had the most talent or were the “best” 15s team in the country that year, but they did what they needed to do to win the national championship. 
[url]https://results.advancedeventsystems.com/event/PTAwMDAwMjU5MjA90/divisions/116741/standings[/url]

In terms of the Metro vs Paramount debate, I thought it was pretty widely accepted that the Paramount 16s had more talent than Metro 16 Travel? I am aware of two times that these teams played head-to-head this past season. At MAPL Hampton, Paramount 16s beat Metro 16 Travel 23-25, 25-22, 15-7. At Bid Regionals Metro 16 Travel bested Paramount 16s 25-18, 25-12.  Like I said, blurred lines.

Of course Metro always wants to get Open bids so congrats to Paramount on that achievement, but if your contention is that Paramount 16s going 3-7 and coming in 33rd in Open was a better tournament performance than Metro 16 Travel going 9-2 and coming in 2nd in National or Paramount 15s going 1-8 and coming in 29th in Open was a better tournament performance than Metro 15 Travel going 11-0 and coming in 1st in National, I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. [/quote]
+1
This discussion is so weird. We are talking about two of the top clubs in the region, both of which have extremely talented players on their rosters. If they played against each other all the time, one would win some games, the other would win other games. Both would crush teams like MOCO, so there is really no dispute that they are better than MOCO. But that's not enough for some folks: Metro must be better than Paramount or Paramount must be better than Metro. As an outsider, I see this debate as parents of either club trying to justify their decision to play for either club. If the other club is slightly better, they see it as a personal failure. This insecurity is what fuels this never-ending discussion.

Let the players celebrate a good game every time they meet on the court. [b]Stop turning this into a toxic environment where one team or the other must win.[/b] Ten years from now the result of each individual game won't matter much. But the players will remember either the joy of playing volleyball or how toxic each of their game was. What do you want your players to remember?
[/quote]
To say Paramount would "crush" another club and immediately tell everyone to to "Stop turning this into a toxic environment where one team or the other must win", you are projecting exactly the same behavior you are claiming is toxic.

So I ask you, please "stop turning this into a toxic environment where one team or the other must win."  It was good advice.[/quote]
When we have a game against Metro or Paramount, we know that we will lose. Knowing where you are and who you are playing against is not toxic, it's just about understanding reality. They have much stronger athletes with much longer experience. We don't have blockers that are tall enough to be effective against their hitters. Our defense rarely digs their hits. They can crush us if they play like their ice cream depends on it. At the same time, we don't want to give up as soon as we are on the court: we set a goal to take 10 points per set from them. That's how we learn to set an achievable goal. Ideally you learn to do your best without giving up. The real fun starts when you end up playing in the bracket at your own level. When I hear about a game between MOCO playing against Metro or Paramount I can predict the likely winner without being toxic. [/quote]

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