Reply to TJ - admissions: GPA and essays vulnerable to prep and affluence

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Strawman. No one thinks affluence doesn’t affect GPA, activities, etc. 
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So you haven't read any of the TJ admissions threads, apparently?  People there are insisting that a test like PSAT absolutely couldn't and shouldn't be used for admissions, since it's too easily gamed by wealthy parents, but they're totally fine with using GPA and essays as the entire admissions process, since they're fair.  The premise of the OP is that this is backward, and that places like Stuyvesant use a sole admissions test for placement because it's the most fair way to do it for lower income, high ability kids.  [/quote]

I don't think that's it. I think the issue is why throw up more barriers when we have perfectly fine measures to use like those already given by the school.[/quote]

Because peer reviewed research from Harvard and Brown show that tests like the PSAT are a much better measure than GPA.[/quote]

DP. SOLs would work too.

Link to the research about PSATs? 
[/quote]

I don't think SOLs work as well as more transparent standardized tests because SOL prep will develop and it will only be available from local test prep organizations and those will be costly.  PSAT prep is available from khan academy and has a much lower barrier to entry.

Here is the research that standardized tests matter.
https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/CollegeAdmissions_Paper.pdf

Here are some videos, the first one seems to be presenting the conclusions of the Harvard Brown study; the second one is older and probably a little more comprehensive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnyiRjPxU_s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv_Cr1a6rj4[/quote]

That isn't research about PSATs or middle schoolers. It's a very narrow study. 
[/quote]

Sorry wrong link.

https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/SAT_ACT_on_Grades.pdf[/quote]

That isn't research about PSATs or middle schoolers. It's a very narrow study. 
[/quote]

It's about standardized testing and the value it has in predicting success at highly selective institutions [b]regardless of the wealth or income of the test taker[/b].

Are you saying you can't apply the conclusions of that study to our current scenario?  Because it's not a very hard streatch.  
The conclusions of that study seem to pretty handily address all the bullshit excuses about standardized tests and wealth/income.

Standardized testing matters.[/quote]

It's very narrow study -- just college freshmen enrolled in a handful of highly-selective, private universities. Those kids mostly all had near-perfect HS GPAs making it difficult to differentiate and predict college performance. This isn't true when you look at a broader population. 
https://news.uchicago.edu/story/test-scores-dont-stack-gpas-predicting-college-success

It's a big leap to apply to middle schoolers applying to a public high school program. Different objectives and populations. [/quote]

And the conclusions of this study are applicable here.
TJ is also a highly selective school (or at last it's supposed to be).
The U Chicago study is useless in this discussion.  It's actually pretty useless if you are talking about anything selective.

[quote]Family income has substantial impacts on SAT scores:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/03/rich-students-get-better-sat-scores-heres-why.html
https://www.ctpublic.org/education/2019-05-15/georgetown-study-wealth-not-ability-the-biggest-predictor-of-future-success
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/10/23/upshot/sat-inequality.html

Standardized tests can screen out kids who didn't have funds/resources to do as much prep. Public high school programs should not have a pay-to-play admissions.

[/quote]

Standardized tests do the exact opposite.  They helps [B]IDENTIFY[/B] smart kids who don't have resources.  This is why Harvard and Brown are returning to test required.  This is why MIT returned to test required.

We have a peer reviewed study that shows that standardized tests reliably predicts the performance of students regardless of income.
Is it really so hard to believe that the children of wealthier parents might just be smarter and better prepared than the children of less affluent parents?

This conclusion applies just as much at UVA and other public colleges as it does at Harvard and private colleges.

I find it odd that when places like harvard were going test optional, we heard people say that Harvard must know what it's doing so we should do the same;
But now that they are going back to requiring test scores, Harvard doesn't know what it's doing anymore.[/quote]

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