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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]OP here - thanks for all your responses.  My niece has read the thread - I told her just to post herself but she is bizarrely paranoid and insisted I do another post (I explained to her that this was not a good look for someone who wants to be a lawyer..but oh well!!!).

Anyway - she isn't interested in doing a clerkship. So doing a clerkship to make herself more attractive to the Honors Program isn't her current plan.

She told me that not everyone for the DOJ Honors program goes straight out of law school - some apply after working a year or two.  So if she gets a job offer from her firm after her 2L summer and then, after practicing, is still interested, then she would definitely consider that route.

Her main concern is the 'politics' of doing a 2L summer associate position and then getting a job offer (which the vast majority of 2L summer associates at her firm receive) - but then, applying to the DOJ honors offices she's interested in during her first term in 3L.

Basically - in the event she receives a permanent offer after her 2L summer, she is scared of doing anything that will make the firm lose confidence in her or pull the offer.  That's why she is nervous about whether it's appropriate to (potentially) have a permanent offer in hand and then apply to the DOJ honors while hoping to keep the biglaw offer if she doesn't get a position through honors. [/quote]

And that’s one of the reasons she should do a clerkship.

Unless things have changed since around 2005, you have to accept your offer with a firm fall of your third year in law school and you don’t find out about doj honors until after her clerkship. If she’s clerking, she can typically keep that offer from the law firm open while also applying to doj.

Why doesn’t she want to do a clerkship? That’s a big mistake. It’s a great experience.[/quote]

The way niece explained it to me is they do their 2L summer and at the end of the summer the firm lets them know whether they will get an offer for after they graduate (I'm a lawyer myself - but i got called more than 15 yrs ago and didn't get into the DOJ, clerkship, etc stuff).

If she wants to apply for the DOJ honors program offices she's interested in, that would be in her first term of 3L.  I think they find out late fall/early winter for 3L whether they get a position in the DOJ honors (but obviously it's extremely competitive .. and from what i'm gleaning from this thread the applicants are often more experienced than 3L students).

As far as clerkships go - i don't know all the details - except niece says that type of experience isn't interesting to her.  *sigh*.

She attends an extremely high ranked law school (not harvard/yale/stanford - but below that group - a highly regarded school).

The DC firm she is summering with would be regarded in DC as a top one (but not one of the NY firms with a DC satellite).  She has her undergraduate at a prestigious (but not-ivy) private uni and has good internships prior to law - for a MOC, a congressional committee, and a USG department where her work was in their 'natsec' area (although she was obviously working as a student).

So from what i'm gleaning, her background given age/experience would be good for the DOJ offices she's interested in - but she would be, by definition, less qualified than those who were applying with clerkships or a year or two of practice under their belt.

Anyway, I'm sure she'll read this - and i will chastise her yet again for not simply asking her questions herself!![/quote]

Let me guess - she goes to Columbia?

This is just extremely depressing yet typical to read: extremely able and privileged law students who are SO caught up in a rigid pathway and “prestige” that they pay zero attention to what they actually want to get out of a career. Cannot deviate from the path at all.

Here is the future I see for your niece: she does well enough at 2L summer, gets offer, does not get DOJ honors (because she does not have a clerkship, and because her risk-adverse, careerist nature is evident in her application materials.) She takes the firm offer. She practices in NYC and becomes increasingly miserable at the nature and quantity of the work. When you meet her for dinner she tells you how miserable she is but that it is “impossible” to leave because of her student loans and “nobody is hiring laterals.”

If she is not actually interested in practicing law in an interesting way, and follows lockstep what “everyone does”, this will be her fate. [/quote]

Niece does not attend Columbia.  And she is not working in NYC - she is working for a top notch DC firm (not a firm that is based in NYC with a DC office).

She hopes to do litigation.  And is very excited about the firm she is working at - and would be thrilled to get hired back after her summer.  It's just that her heart draws her to some of the DOJ Honors offices.

I don't get your post - it doesn't fit my niece.  She's happy and enthusiastic about the firm she's summering at.  She was just wondering about the politics about applying for DOC Honors during 3L (and I think most of that has been hashed out in this thread - THANK YOU for all of those who have chimed in with constructive advice - I know DCUM can be an ugly board at times but some of the posts here have been extremely valuable to my niece). [/quote]

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