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Reply to "TJ Falls to 14th in the Nation Per US News"
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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]DP. The concern that many people in the community had, including school board members, was that wealthy kids obtained an unfair advantage because their families could afford to get access to previous test questions, including the Quant-Q, which is an NDA-protected test. Copied from my “roundup thread”. 2. CONCERN ABOUT TJ PREP INDUSTRY [b]There was also public concern about the TJ test prep industry that led, in part, to changes in the admissions process.[/b] By reverse engineering the admissions criteria/process, prep companies offered kids an unfair advantage in admissions. In fact, back in 2017 the SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce this unfair advantage. https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/ [i]“ “[u]Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps [/u]to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan. [u]Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so[/u]. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”[/i] 3. QUANT-Q DOESN’T RELEASE MATERIALS [b]The company that offers Quant-Q intentionally does NOT release materials to the public - it’s very different than SAT, ACT, etc. They want to “measure your natural ability”. And test takers agreed to not share any parts of the test. [/b] https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/ [i]“The firm that markets the math portion of the test, [u]Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.[/u]”[/i] Based on the NDAs, any test prep books or companies that obtain and share example quant-q test questions may have been unethically, or even potentially illegally, produced. https://insightassessment.com/policies/ [i]“Test Taker Interface User Agreement In this agreement, each person who accesses this interface is called a “user,” and whatever a user accesses is called an “instrument.” Copyright Protected: The user acknowledges that this online interface and everything in it are proprietary business property of the California Academic Press LLC and are protected by international copyrights. Except as permitted by purchased use licenses, [u]the user agrees not to reproduce, distribute, hack, harm, limit, alter, or edit this interface or any part of any instrument [/u]or results report, table or analysis stored in, generated by, or delivered through this interface. Non-Disclosure and Non-Compete Agreement: [u]The user agrees not to copy, disclose, describe, imitate, replicate, or mirror this interface or this instrument(s) in whole or in part for any purpose.[/u] The user agrees not to create, design, develop, publish, market, or distribute any comparable or competitive instrument or instruments for a period of up to four years from the date of the user’s most recent access. [i]"Remember that the goal of a critical thinking assessment is to measure your natural ability to think critically, so there’s no need for extensive preparation. Just be yourself and approach the assessment with a clear mind."[/i] 4. TJ STUDENTS ACKNOWLEDGED UNFAIR ADVANTAGE [b]TH students and others have acknowledged the unfair advantage that money can buy.[/b] https://www.tjtoday.org/29411/features/students-divided-on-proposed-changes-to-admissions-process/ [i]“ “Personally, TJ admissions was not a challenge to navigate. I had a sibling who attended before me. However, a lot of resources needed to navigate admissions cost money. That is an unfair advantage given to more economically advantaged students,” junior Vivi Rao said. ”[/i] 5. TJ STUDENTS ADMIT SHARING ADMISSIONS TEST QUESTIONS, INCLUDING QUANT-Q [b]TJ students admitted both on DCUM and on Facebook, anonymously and with real name, that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test. [/b] https://www.facebook.com/tjvents/posts/pfbid0jKy4hotXF8AxKwfHm2MAVi7e2yYoCqtrTTXPYsszAdQg6uMoTmReMidqyM1mpu9Bl https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/ [i]“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. [u]They can pay money to tutoring organizations[/u] to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and [u][b]to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep[/b][/u]; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”[/i] [/quote] This whole post can be boiled down to “someone on Facebook said it happened.”[/quote] Not even that. No one claims to have bought test answers.[/quote] Do you acknowledge that many people in the community, including school board members, were concerned that wealthy kids obtained an unfair advantage because their families could afford to get access to previous test questions? [/quote] White people are always concerned when their kids start to lose seats to asian kids. If wealth was the driver of who got into TJ, TJ would be predominantly white. There was no unfair advantage with the SHSAT because anyone with $20 and an amazon account could get a Barrons or Princeton review book. FCPS created the problem with their weird notion that ambush testing was somehow a good thing.[/quote] False. Wealthy white families recognize that TJ is a grind that diminishes their kids’ chances to get into a top college. Do you think the WISC and CoGAT are “ambush testing”? Do you think it’s ok for families to prep for those? [/quote] This is of course bullshit. White families didn't leave, they got crowded out. White families didn't pass on TJ any more than they passed on medical school, investment banking, ivy+, or anything else TJ used to be predominantly white and they didn't leave of their own accord This is what is known as sour grapes. White families with mediocre kids pretending that they aren't going to TJ or ivy+ because they CHOOSE not to go to TJ or ivy+ They never had the choice TJ and ivy+ isn't the goal of life but pretending that white families have gone from almost 100% of TJ and almost 100% of ivy+ to 20% of TJ before the admissions change looks like a coping mechanism[/quote] I know several white Arlington families this year that had kids get in and turn it down. There were numerous reasons why they ended up declining, but they did indeed decline.[/quote] In my circles of affluent white families (many with T10 undergrad/grad parents), parents explicitly said they didn’t want their kids to have a grueling HS experience. And that TJ would actually hurt their kids’ chances at top colleges. All that work for no benefit. The exceptions were a couple super nerdy STEM kids who thrived at TJ. Very few families seriously considered TJ. Many families did look at private schools though. That PP doesn’t have a clue about wealthy white families. [/quote] PP here. You think people have been sending their kids to public school from k-8 and then send their kids to private school for 9-12? Do you know how many TJ parents I know that acted all non-committal about wanting their kids to go to TJ until they got in? Noone wants to look like they really wanted to go but their kid got rejected.[/quote] Yes, many parents send their kids to private for 9-12 and never even apply to TJ. There are several 9-12 private schools and 9th is a big expansion year for the pk-12 schools. Who do you think is filling those seats? On a previous thread, I looked at the numbers for class of 2015: 56% of all Asian 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ 99% of those students applied 45% of all white 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ only 49% of those students applied Unless they have a super STEM kid, white families tend to prefer their base school or private. [/quote] I don't think it is common to send kids to private school after K-8 public. "Wealthy white families" seem to either be in private school already or are satisfied with the public school options in their area. Are there a lot of "wealthy white families" going K-8 public then passing on McLean or Langley High School to go to Potomac? Isn't high school is an expansion year mostly because there are a lot of private K-8 schools. What was the eligibility criteria back then? It seems to me that if the eligibility criteria was very low this might indicate unrealistic hopefulness on the part of the asian parents than disdain from the white parents.[/quote] Yes, most of the kids we know in private for HS now were in public k-8. A few moved for 6th. Many kids also want to stay with their friends at their base school. There are only a few K-8s. IIRC, the eligibility criteria included enrollment in Alg 1 Honors, Geometry Honors, or above. https://www.fcag.org/tjadmits2011.html [/quote] Algebra in 8th grade? That's available to anyone that wants it right? [b]There is no way that the majority of private school kids in high school were public school kids in 8th grade. [/b]Do you mean that the new kids in private high schools all came from public schools? I only have Potomac to judge from but it does not appear to be the case here.[/quote] I didn't say that. Over their PK-12 experiences, my kids have attended a mix of public/private. Out of all of the people we know who are/were in private for 9-12, most of them were in public K-8. A few left in middle school because it was easier to get in at that point than for HS and they knew they wanted private for HS. MANY white, affluent families with kids in public k-8 do apply to private for 9-12. Or their kids want to stay with the base school because they want to stay with their friends, don't want a long commute, don't want to grind for 4 yrs, and/or don't want to diminish their chances for top colleges. There aren't a ton applying to TJ. Mostly just the kids who are super into STEM at an early age. [/quote] Oh you were just giving your personal experience? Anecdote isn't data. This attitude you seem to think exists among white people didn't seem to exist 15 years ago when whites were the majority. This attitude seesm to have developed after they got crowded out. Even with 99% of asians applying and only a self selected crowd of less than half the eligible white kids applying, asian kids got in at higher rates than white kids. Whites didn't leave TJ, they were crowded out.[/quote] It wasn’t as much of a grind 15 years ago. It’d be interesting to see how many eligible kids were applying back then. When I get a chance I’ll see if fcag has any relevant data. [/quote]
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