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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]OK, a really long post that repeats your earlier point that Allah forgives people *who believe in him.* The entire passage addresses "what it means to be a believer" and repeats the word *believer* many, many times. How did you miss this? Or did you realize this, but you felt that your argument now called for 1/2 page of obfuscation?

Moreover, this passage really isn't news, and I wonder what you think you're  accomplishing here. In every single religion, the Supreme Being(s) rewards those who fall into line with what the Supreme Being(s) wants. There is absolutely nothing special about Islam in this regard.

Moreover, it absolutely begs the question about what happens to non-Muslims ago aren't towing the line by embracing Islam. Your passage in no way addresses this question, because it's directed at and concerns believers exclusively.

So how about  addressing Allah's Catch 22 for non-believers: 
1. If you've heard of Islam, you must study it, no excuses accepted.
2. If you've studied Islam, then you know the supposed "truth" and if you turn your back on Islam now you face an even worse fate.[/quote]

You keep waffling between asking about christians and polytheists. Christians, even those who believe in trinity, are believers. Polytheists are not believers. However, Allah does not punish those who have no idea they are committing a sin. The reason I keep repeating this is with the hope that at some point you will understand that. The verses from the Quran were shown. Now to each his own.

[/quote]

Either you are lying or you don't know as much about the Quran as you think you know. The following Quran verse makes it very clear that believing in the trinity means you are not a believer:

"They have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment."[/quote]

You are reading the Quran's English translation and without context of what the entire Quran says about disbelievers. Why don't you read it in Quranic Arabic and then tell me the Arabic word used for "disbelievers" in that verse? It is "kafaroo" or "kafarun." Who were the kafarun? What is the definition of a kafir? A kafir isn't someone who doesn't recognize the truth, it's someone who COVERS UP the truth. Regardless of how many people, including Muslims (and there are many wrongly guided Muslims!), who tell you all non-Muslims are kafarun, they are not. A kafir is a person who heard about Islam or the oneness of God and knows it to be the truth, but arrogantly refuses to admit it. An example of a kafir in the Quran is pharaoh during Moses' time. Time after time Moses showed him God's power with various miracles and asked him to release the Israelites. Pharaoh was obstinate, denied God, and refused. He is a perfect example of a kafir. Islam believes the innocent Christian folks today who believe in trinity with no understanding of their wrongdoing, but whose hearts are still filled with love and compassion for mankind, are not the kafarun. The Christians who stood in a circle, safeguarding mosques after 9-11 undoubtedly embraced trinity but they are not kafarun. The Jewish rabbis who even today open up their synagogues to Muslims so that Muslims can pray their Friday prayer (because they don't have a place to pray) are not kafarun.

In Islam the concepts of trinity and the divinity of Jesus are wrong and they were added after Jesus' death. This significantly altered Jesus' message. I apologize if this offends you and if you perceive this as arrogance. This is a historical fact and simply what our holy book says. But those who knew this was wrong yet still persisted in asserting the concepts of trinity and the divinity of Jesus are indeed kafarun or disbelievers. Those who embraced trinity, such as the Christians of today, who don't know this is wrong are not kafarun.

My knowledge is imperfect. If you really want better explanations, you will call an imam or scholar.  
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