Reply to Is the Charleston church shooting making anyone doubt their Faith?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I'm the PP with the questions above. The problem is that I want to believe and think I, like many people, would find solace in believing in some grand plan. But I'm too logical to accept things like "God is all powerful, except when he can't control free will." So maybe I do need to give up.[/quote]

To me, free will is compatable with an all-powerful God, in fact it's more compatible than the hypothetical opposite--humans who are merely worshipful robots who never make a false step. The Christian God loves his creations--us--and that's precisely why he hasn't created us to be perfectly behaved automatons. [/quote]

PP, if I may address your concerns:

You are here praying a prayer that has been prayed by -- I would guess -- every Christian, for two thousand years. "Lord, I believe. Help my unbelief!" is the exact quote of Mark 9:24. What I love about this passage is that a man, who is in the presence of Jesus as He is healing the man's little boy, is STILL QUESTIONING. And you think it's a big deal that you and I occasionally have doubts???

I've said this here before on DCUM -- doubt is an integral part of faith. EVERYONE is logical to a certain extent, and wants the certainty of understanding. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. God of course knows that about us (He did make us that way) and repeatedly, throughout history, works with us on that level, knowing that we need understanding and reassurance. That is why He actually came so far as to send His Son to earth. How much more tangible than that can you get? And yet, even in the presence of Him, as Jesus was healing the sick, working miracles and generally revolutionizing the world of thought as only God Himself could do, many people around him still said, "yeah, right."

Since you are interested, here is what I suggest. [b]Start reading the Bible.[/b] Start in the Gospels of the New Testament (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John). You may have read these before, but this time, really read them, meditate on favorite passages, and listen to what God is saying to YOU today. Ask God to meet you where you are -- wanting to believe, but too logical to accept certain points. I promise you, He will do so.

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Please do not read the BIble if you are trying to become more religious.  It has the opposite effect on adults who are reading it in an attempt to understand what religion is all about.  I know of people who were devout Christians, who decided to make a careful study of the bible who came out atheists once they saw all the discrepancies and learned how it had been translated many times over centuries.

More people are leaving religion than are moving towards it these days and part of the reason is that they are reading the Bible as educated adults.   So please, do not take pp's advice if you want to be more religious.  [/quote]

Oh, please. You again. Give the PP a little credit for maturity, would you?[/quote]

I'm the PP with the "free will" questions/statements. Sorry, I never intended to hijack this thread. To the PPs who have offered advice, I greatly appreciate it. It is helpful to hear how you and others struggle with faith even though you believe in an omnipotent God. I think my problem is that I'm too logical. I can spot a contradiction a mile away (my BIL's bullsh stories never fly in my house!) and I want something that makes sense to me. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.[/quote]

PP, it is not a "problem" that you are logical. That is a gift from God, in and of itself, and it is the way He made you. God and your ability to love and live in His faith is in no way threatened by your perceived sense of being logical.[/quote]

PP, I'm the poster writing about how God didn't make worshipful robots. I'm very logical myself - advanced degree from top 3 university, work in research, dozens of published papers. I do get the need for logic and how difficult cognitive dissonance can be. I read several theology books a year, and I'm always studying. I can't say that I've satisfied my every question. But, contrary to our atheist friend's contention, I find the gospels to be pretty logical (perhaps the Roman environment had something to do with this). It's not what goes in your mouth but what comes out... loving your neighbor is easy, so try to love your enemies in this interconnected 21st century world of ours.... and so on.[/quote]

This is me, too, minus the advanced degree from a top 3 university! But here is something else I am becoming increasingly aware of, the more that I study God and His word. Our God Himself is very logical. He loves order and routine. In fact, he created the world out of "chaos" or nothingness. Every time we expect the sun to rise in the morning, and to set at night, as surely as we expect cool autumn days to follow this hot summer, we are experiencing God's love of routine, order and logic.[/quote]

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