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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Now that we've gone off topic, I have a question for Muslim poster, who wrote:

[b]She had no idea about sura Ash Shurra and the verse that addressed men AND women on how to resolve (political) matters that required collective opinions. She could not read Arabic so she had no idea the language used in that verse was plural, addressing women too. [/b]

I don't see how the plural used shows definitively that both men and women were being addressed.  In Arabic, the same plural is used when it is men only being addressed or men and women being addressed.  I don't know what grounds one would use to say one or other was meant.  All that we know is that women only were not being addressed as that is a different plural.[/quote]

So it's like French and Spanish, if only in the sense that you use the masculine plural for a group that could either consist of both men and women, or just more than one men.  [/quote]

But 42:38 does not refer only to men and we know that because 42:38 is not a standalone verse. It must be read with the verses above it and the verses below it. Allah is communicating with everyone because in the verses above it He begins by addressing all believers. All believers means all Muslims or all who submit their will to God, not just men who are believers.[/quote]

With regard to the oft-repeated concept of "Quran must be read in the totality of its chapters", it's worth noting something most Westerners don't know:

The Quran was developed (or "revealed") over the period of approximately twenty years.  Yet the official version of the Quran (recall our discussion of Mr. Umar's book-burning parties) is not compiled in chronological order. Repeat: not in chronological order at all.  For whatever reason, the chapters (surahs) were ordered from longest to shortest with no connection whatever to the order in which they were revealed or to their actual content.  This is why you have my blessing to chortle any time someone says you need to read Quranic surahs in the context of preceding chapters and following chapters - because chapters precede or follow each other with no rhyme or reason other than length.  Ergo, a preceding chapter would shed no light whatsoever on the chapter that follows.

Add to this a very confusing (to everyone, not just non-Muslims) concept of abrogation - Muhammad's answer to many questions related to obvious inconsistencies in the Quran.  His answer was, essentially, "God giveth, and God taketh away", or "Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We {Allah} abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is able to do all things?"  That is, if something doesn't make sense or is inconsistent, it's because Allah changed his mind later.  I always found it amusing. 
[/quote]

Please provide proof that Prophet Muhammad said this.

Also, I have read the Quran many times. It was not as confusing for me. But maybe that is because I had teachers far more knowledgeable than I was explaining it to me. Those who do not understand it can read the footnotes of Yusuf Ali as he sometimes provides historical context. If you still don't understand it, but want to, its time to sit with a scholar and ask him or her. This is better than bashing the holy book for not making any sense and mocking our prophet for justifying seemingly arbitrary changes. Maybe there is something you overlooked or misunderstood so check your understanding of the Quran with one who understands Quranic arabic and islamic history. [/quote]

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