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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]The thing is DCPS has lots of faults. But it also has to educate every kid. And ultimately when you create a system where privileged people can opt out, you create a vacuum where the charters have no reason to improve because they have enough families who will opt in and can kick out the kids not performing, and you have DCPS which has little incentive to improve because wealthier parents either concentrate in one area or opt out.

So no one is really improving or being forced to excel, charter or public, because the system does not incentive it.

It sucks. It's also not unique and a real problem with the US education landscape as a whole.[/quote]

DCPS has to educate every neighborhood kid that enrolls and it runs its own choice program - selective high schools, out of boundary etc. No one ever publishes the rates of the out of boundary kids at DCPS who get sent back to their home school for behavior, attendance, etc. [b]These forced transfers [/b]also push students back to DCPS schools. It would be great if information was more transparent so that there could be real analysis of where students are disappearing from some schools and ending up at others, especially mid-year. The public information that is available is on re-enrollment rates. A look at Ward 7 and 8 DCPS high schools has re-enrollment rates somewhere in the low 70's on average. Nearly 30% of students of those schools are either ending up nowhere, at other DCPS choice schools or at charters. So our system needs to support all of the choices because our families are using all of the choices. It's not just the privileged who are opting out. There may be notable failures (or failures to thrive) in the charter sector but that's true in DCPS as well. The notable failures aren't the only story though. There are charters that are doing well and/or improving and the same is true for DCPS.

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"Forced transfers" is education consultant speak for CONSEQUENCES. There's a vocal minority in DC that thinks consequences are bad/unfair/discriminatory. I think most parents think them necessary. [/quote]

Do you like it as much when the expelled kids end up at your kid's school?[/quote]

That's a false choice. I like consequences...full stop. Kids who fail should not be advanced just because some SJW whines about 18 years olds in 3rd grade classes.

What's your argument? There should be no consequences? [/quote]

There should definitely be consequences, and services designed to improve the situation. But you need to see that passing them from one school to another isn't a real solution from a district-level perspective. It doesn't help anything. It might feel like a solution to you because a kid might leave your school, but you haven't considered that kids will also come into your school from this. Just saying to kick them out is not thinking through the policy problem. [/quote]

People who argue that every school should fit every kid are part of how we ended up in this situation. Not every school is ideal for advanced learners. Not every school is ideal for kids with behavioral problems. Not every school is ideal for kids who want to focus on the Arts. Not every school is ideal for kids who want to focus on STEM.

Passing kids from a school that is ill equipped to handle needs to one that can [u]is not a problem[/u], [u]it is part of the solution[/u]. We do it all the time. Application schools do it. BASIS does it it too. Nothing wrong with it. What is wrong is people arguing that high standards for behavior, comportment and achievement somehow discriminate.

Part of the disconnect on DCUM is how many posters live either in Ed Consultant-Pedagogy Naval Gazing Land and/or come to these discussions with an elementary school mindset. The world looks very different when school and learning gets real.

Before you go there, there is a chasm between "warehousing bad kids" all in one place and centralizing support systems for kids who need them so we aren't wasting resources. If a kid cannot meet societal norms then they need to go somewhere better equipped to help them overcome those deficits.     [/quote]

Yes to the last part but the school they're being transferred school isn't equipped to handle them, they just don't have a choice.

I firmly agree that there should be more intervention and supports but the system is not set up for that and instead of arguing to address it people flock to charters to entirely opt out. Then the charters, rather than feeling pressure to improve, rest on the knowledge that some parents will always feel more comfortable with the school having an eject button for other, and at risk, kids.

[b]Some charters do very well, Latin is certainly one, but most do not. The argument for charters is not that they give most kids options, it's that they give the privileged EOTP and a very few number of at risk EOTP an automatic safety net to avoid problem behaviors.[/b][/quote]

Oft repeated but still incorrect. They are pure lottery. They give every kid an equal chance at an education. People like you are so invested in your hero complexes and protecting the pours and minorities that you forget that charters offer an exit for those same people you're so busy performatively worrying about. [/quote]

They are pure lottery, but certain practices (entry year, location, promotion requirements) can make them functionally inaccessible to certain demographics.[/quote]

Another oft repeated, offensive and meaningless statement. What does this mean? Are you suggesting that if an individual charter school isn't a magic bullet to solve all education problems then it ought not exist? Do you have any idea how condescending it is to suggest the limitations of "certain demographics" based on your own biases? Your world view seems to be that poor (read: black) people just sit in squalor waiting for a white savior like you to open a school next door to them. I mean, FFS, you said the quiet part out that promotion requirements are a limitation to "certain demographics"!!!! [/quote]

I'm saying a 5th grade entry year with limited to no backfilling means parents have to be thinking about middle school well before it's obvious.

I'm saying a non-central campus with poor transit access means parents have to have another means of transportation and the time and/or money to make a school commute work.

I'm saying promotion requirements that are significantly more rigid than DCPS lead to attrition that wouldn't happen at another school.

Above could apply to anyone not in the know about the complexities of school choice in DC, anyone who can't or doesn't drive, anyone with a demanding job and limited childcare support, anyone whose kid struggles with standardized testing, etc.[/quote]

It's so unfair when schools have fixed physical locations. What about the people who don't live nearby? It's also unfair when schools have "rules" and "policies" and "academic standards." What about people who hate rules, or who don't want to study, or who think policies are boring? What about them? Y'all need to check your privilege. [/quote]

Doesn't explain why charters have been so resistant to location suggestions from PCSB during expansion discussions.[/quote]

Another oft repeated bit on nonsense rears its ugly head. This rocket scientist wants to know why schools that have high standards don't locate in the worst neighborhoods in DC. Such a mystery! Do you not understand this? Do you think people are going to apologize for locating where they can attract cohorts of high performers? The kids that you pretend to care about can attend these schools because they are pure lottery. The school you hate most located where it did precisely because it sat at the confluence of mass transit, allowing kids form all over the city to attend. But you don't want to acknowledge facts. You prefer to sit in the cheap seats and throw rocks.

[/quote]

Rocket scientist, huh? I guess am kind of excited about tonight's splash down.

I don't hate any school. I'm not even anti charter. But I'm also not pretending charters provide equal access to all.[/quote]

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