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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]It is really hard to believe this is what we want:  https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/10/science/trump-science-budget-cuts.html

Just a quote from that article: he $154 billion figure the smallest amount that the federal government has spent on science in this century. ... The proposed drop in federal funding for science research, if approved by Congress, could let China match or take the lead in global science investments, Ms. Zimmermann said. ...  In April, the science group published figures showing that China had greatly increased support for its scientific enterprise in the past two decades. As of 2023 — the most recent year available for comparisons — China’s investment was close to equaling that of the United States.[/quote]

If we stop the h1b and opt visa programs , US will surge to the lead again in innovation.

Masters and phds will be more highly valued and more US citizens will flock to these programs

What h1b was meant to do and what it successfully did was devalue a PhD and masters degree , which is the opposite of what we need for long term prosperity[/quote]

How on earth is this miraculous turn around going to happen when they've cut science funding off at the knees?  My kid is supposed to start a STEM PhD this fall. Funding is down the toilet - I'll be amazed if more that 1 year of the PhD is funded - she'll be wasting that first year worrying and trying to get herself overseas to a safe haven for science that has some funding. NSF funding which also helps fund PhD students was also loped off. I hope I'm wrong. Plus competition will be fierce. There's no coherent plan, just indiscriminate cutting. And no, they can't use their reserves and no, the decimated bio tech companies aren't swooping into start funding blah, blah, blah. [/quote]

I agree with the previous poster.  They can still fund Americans.  [b]Most of the money goes to H-1b and F1[/b], so cutting that is good.  The problem I see is that we could end up with Democrats in power again, so those professions are always going to be unstable.  Democrats would have to do a 180 on skilled immigration, but they won't because they make money (won't say cheap) selling green cards.  The Universities here totally distort the market, not for scientific reasons, but because they make money on international students and h-1bs.  They have all kinds of arguments but none of them are very good.  I'm fine with whatever they say about our science when we cut it.[/quote]

Do you have a citation on this? Specifically that federally-funded scientific research programs spend most of their money on H-1B and F1s? And how exactly does this result in universities making money on international students?

It's like you're glomming together all sorts of right-wing propaganda on university education and academic research and then regurgitating it in some even more incoherent mess without really thinking about what you're saying. Par for the course.[/quote]

You could AI it yourself, but here is what chatgpt had do say:

Here's what I found regarding U.S. government research funding allocation across immigration statuses:

---

## 🔬 Researchers on Temporary Visas (F‑1, J‑1, H‑1B)

* **At the doctoral level**, temporary visa holders (e.g., F‑1, J‑1, H‑1B) make up a significant portion of U.S.-trained PhD recipients in science and engineering, typically around **35–36%** of all doctorates in recent years ([CIS.org][1]).
* In 2023, nearly half of U.S. research doctorates awarded to temporary visa holders were earned by students from China and India ([National Science Foundation][2]).
* In the workforce funded by the National Science Foundation (NSF), there were about **126,700 temporary visa–holding** S\&E workers in 2021, increasing modestly from prior years .

---

## 🛠️ H‑1B Workers

* H‑1B visas are capped at **85,000 annually**, plus an additional \~20,000 for those with U.S. master’s or higher degrees ([Wikipedia][3]).
* There are approximately **580,000–620,000 H‑1B workers** in the U.S., with around **114,000 new visas issued in 2024**, and **350,000** OPT (Optional Practical Training) participants in 2023 ([Reddit][4]).
* H‑1B workers—especially in STEM—frequently participate in federally funded R\&D at universities, government labs, and industry.

---

## 🟩 Permanent Residents & Naturalized Citizens

* The **EB employment-based green card program** issued about **55,000 principal-worker green cards** in 2022, with another \~66,000 dependents ([laurenpolicy.com][5]).
* **Defense Department–funded projects** show that **37%** of the advanced-degree workforce is foreign-born, and among that group, around **85% are naturalized citizens**, since security clearance typically requires citizenship ([National Academies Press][6]).

---

## 🇺🇸 U.S. Citizens and Permanent Residents

* U.S. citizens and permanent residents remain the majority of federally funded researchers. For instance, in 2021’s NSF S\&E workforce, **\~77–86%** were native-born or permanent residents ([National Science Foundation][2]).
* Doctorate recipients with U.S. citizenship or permanent residency make up about **70%** of PhD holders with definite employment commitments in U.S. academic and research institutions ([National Science Foundation][7]).

---

### 🎯 Summary Table

| Immigration Status             | Approx. Share of U.S. Doctorates / S\&E Workforce             | Role in Government-Funded R\&D                                    |
| ------------------------------ | ------------------------------------------------------------- | ----------------------------------------------------------------- |
| Temporary visas (F‑1/J‑1/H‑1B) | \~35 % of doctorates; \~126k S\&E workers                     | A large share of early-career researchers (e.g., postdocs)        |
| H‑1B visa holders              | \~580–620k total; \~114k new in 2024                          | Key participants in STEM R\&D—especially in industry/universities |
| Green card holders             | \~55k principal green cards via EB stream                     | Increasingly present in government-funded research                |
| Naturalized citizens           | \~85 % of foreign-born DOD-funded researchers (\~85% of 37 %) | Crucial for high-security, innovation-driven roles                |
| U.S. citizens/PRs              | Majority (70–80 %) of researchers and doctorate holders       | Provide bulk of stable research workforce                         |

---

### 🧠 Interpretation

* **Temporary visa holders** anchor the pipeline of federally funded early-career researchers—particularly PhD students and postdocs—making up a third or more of the STEM doctorate population.
* **H‑1B professionals** bring notable talent to industry and university–industry collaborations in government-sponsored labs and contracts.
* **Green card holders** gradually increase their presence, often transitioning from H‑1B or OPT statuses.
* **Naturalized citizens** are essential, especially in defense and national-security research requiring clearance.
* **U.S. citizens and permanent residents** continue to dominate, forming approximately 70–80% of the research workforce funded by federal dollars.

---

### 📌 Bottom Line

While U.S. citizens and permanent residents account for the majority of federally funded research, **temporary visa holders**—especially F‑1, J‑1, and H‑1B—play an outsized role at the graduate and postdoctoral level. **Naturalized citizens** are critical in high-security, government-led research, particularly in defense. And **green card holders**, though smaller in number, are steadily increasing their impact. Together, these groups form a vital, multi-stage talent pipeline driving U.S. innovation and scientific leadership.

---

Let me know if you'd like insights on specific agencies (e.g., NIH, NSF, DOD) or breakdowns by research discipline!

[1]: https://cis.org/Report/Immigrants-US-Doctoral-Programs?utm_source=chatgpt.com "Immigrants in U.S. Doctoral Programs"
[2]: https://ncses.nsf.gov/search?query=what+do+S+visa+holders+get&utm_source=chatgpt.com "Search | NSF - National Science Foundation"
[3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa?utm_source=chatgpt.com "H-1B visa"
[4]: https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/1hobih6?utm_source=chatgpt.com "Stats about visa work programs for productive discussion"
[5]: https://www.laurenpolicy.com/p/h-1b-visas-and-the-american-economy?utm_source=chatgpt.com "H-1B Visas and the American Economy - by Lauren Gilbert"
[6]: https://nap.nationalacademies.org/read/27787/chapter/4?utm_source=chatgpt.com "2 Background | International Talent Programs in the Changing Global Environment | The National Academies Press"
[7]: https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsf22300/section/8350?utm_source=chatgpt.com "Doctorate Recipients from U.S. Universities: 2020 | NSF - National Science Foundation"
[/quote]

Thank you for wasting water for being a lazy a$$ and/or unable to actually do research yourself.[/quote]

I don't see the doubters here playing with facts.[/quote]

Your copy and paste arguments with no sense of irony on your part. No sense that using AI is not the same as "doing your own research."

:lol:

Oh man i didn't think through how MAGA was going to use AI.

Just like a MAGA influencer uses a filter to make themselves more like the MAGA ideal, they are going to use AI to have the latest talking points at their fingertips but they'll paste every piece of trash.

Sigh, so much for critical thinking [/quote]

Seriously?

[twitter]https://x.com/townhallcom/status/1945200098926825513[/twitter]

[/quote]

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