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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]The average man seriously underestimate how much it takes to give a woman a satisfying sexual experience. Most of the time they are just lying to you or being nice on order not to hurt your feeling when they told you that they came or the sex was amazing. Just thrusting back and forth won't cut it. You need foreplay l, resonance, oral, PIV in the right spot etc.

I would love to hear a group of women talking about their sexual experiences. Lol I think a lot of us would be very humble when we here what they really think of our sexual prowess.[/quote]

I have asked my wife many times what would really make her “happy” and she never gives an answer other than a non answer. She doesn’t like oral and mostly doesn’t like being touched down there. Massage and rubbing are effective and thankfully so is PIV. I don’t complain because we have sex at least weekly which after 36 years is pretty good and she often initiates. She is very quiet so I rarely know if she has had an O. [/quote]

TBH this sounds very…assault-y.

If it’s not a hell yes, it’s a no. [/quote]

Fascinating how consent has now shifted from affirmative to now it has to be “hell yes” otherwise it’s rape.

Honestly you people are bizarre and you’ve hijacked an entire segment of public dialogue with your drivel. [/quote]

DP. Your response is weird - do you have kids, particularly teens? You should advise them that both parties should be a totally enthusiastic “yes.”[/quote]

DP. This is not a weird response. He said his wife doesn't outwardly appear to enjoy sex that much, he has repeated asked her what would make it better, no response. Weirdo poster's take: this feels assault-y.

What would make it not assault-y? She is still consenting to have sex with him. It's sad, but it's not assault-y.[/quote]

A lot of women have sex when they don’t want to because they feel obligated or because their H pressured them or asks nonstop until they say yes. I was married to a man like that - I absolutely despised having sex with him, but if I didn’t “consent” he would nag me nonstop. It was easier to just go along with it but the entire time I wanted to crawl out of my own skin.

Remarried now to a man I love having sex with, and we have a very healthy sex life. If he was just laying there, obviously not enjoying it, there’s no way I could bring myself to have sex with him. Like I can’t imagine at all how someone’s head gets so twisted that they will gladly have sex with a person who so very obviously does not want  to have sex with them.

At that point it’s better to have a conversation about opening the marriage. I brought up an open marriage to my xH multiple times so he could get his needs met but he refused. I just can’t understand why people insist on having sex with people who don’t want to have sex with them. [/quote]

I am very curious about your ex — did he try to communicate with you?   Was he open to doing things that would give you more sexual pleasure?    Did you explore why you were not able to have sexual pleasure with him?   You did marry him after all?

Sex is an important part of marriage and while it is trendy today to say “just open your marriage” that’s not what the vast, vast majority of people want, and it’s not what most men want either.   It’s not a solution to the problem and I would be absolutely opposed to it.

I also imagine that your ex probably didn’t consider the sexual interactions to be great either.    Maybe he wanted to crawl out of his skin too at how little his wife was into him sexually?

[/quote]

We talked about it constantly. We had MANY issues beyond sex and he refused to address them. He approach it the same way you are - wanting to only talk about sex life problems - when it was like, no, Steve, I need to you stop constantly controlling every move I make and criticizing the way I load the dishwasher and help me out with the kids more and maybe take me on a date once in awhile.

Sex is important within the larger context. You can’t ignore every other aspect of a marriage and then force your partner to have sex because “it’s important for marriage”. That actually destroys marriages even more. [/quote]

I am the person who asked the question — and fair enough points.   It sounds like you did what you could do.  I am really not blaming or attacking you — I was more intellectually curious.

There are plenty of women in your situation and my heart really does go out to you because as you said I would not want to be having sex in this situation.

But there are lots of men out there who DO share the load, do household chores, help take care of the kids, plan date nights, etc., and their wives still shut down over sex.   If you haven’t guessed already, I have fallen into that camp.   And, yes, sometimes when the wife is saying “yes” to sex but it doesn’t feel like she is truly present and so they do not have true intimacy during sex which makes the entire act feel empty — barely a step above masturbation.

Most of the psychology books and what not have said “try to communicate better” — “try to communicate more” — “talk it through” and that only seemed to make things worse because even when I tried in good-faith to talk about this issue, she would blow up.

That all being said — a recent shrink got us to the point where I am no longer talking about sex or even initiating at all.   This leads to some short-term denial of my own pleasure but I am willing to do that if it makes it better over the long run.   And I have found that she’s been initiating more.   The sex itself is still kind of so-so, but we will see where this goes.

I am just posting this because sexual issues can be a two-way street in a marriage.   There is an assumption from many people who read these boards that oh, the fault all lies with the guy, if he just did more of his share and asked her out on date nights, etc — that’s the issue.  For some people, surely it is.  But not everyone.    And suggesting “opening up the marriage” is not really an option for the vast majority of people.

There’s also a lot of gross misogyny here and that’s not the solution either.    [/quote]

PP. What has your wife said? Does she know why she doesn’t want sex?

Unfortunately it’s not as simple as “do some chores and plan a date night”. My sex drive can tank for any number of reasons:

- even if H is helping with chores, I’m still carrying the mental load and feel exhausted
- work is stressful
- I haven’t worked out in a long time and feel fat and gross
- none of my nice clothes fit anymore so I don’t even want to go on dates
- I want a few hours of alone time to go out and do the things I did before kids that make me feel like ME
- men don’t flirt with me anymore so I don’t feel desirable
- I have anxiety about money

Etc etc etc.

I’m actually a very high drive woman. But when any of these start to go out of balance, my drive tanks. And I don’t always know WHY. Sometimes it takes awhile to figure out.

The big one is not feeling like I did in my 20s. I don’t know if men can relate to this, but there’s something about losing your identity and becoming nothing but a wife and mom that just kills not only your sex drive, but your desire for anything sensual and joyful. The days become dreary and gray. Often what I need to feel good again is a few weeks with extra time to go to the gym, new clothes that make me feel sexy, and some time away from the husband and kids to feel like a human being again. [/quote]

I am the person who posted the original response — your list all rings true but let me add three more that are also present in my specific situation —

…

Yet seeing it happen again also made me realize that just giving up on this relationship wasn’t the answer and that there was no guarantee another relationship wouldn’t have the same issue.   I love my wife very much and don’t want to lose her over this — even if I am frustrated at times with the current situation.  As the first post kicking off this thread shows, there is a lot of discussion on these boards about this issue and I think people are too quick to pull the trigger sometimes and think that they will easily find sexual fulfillment with someone else.   You might just have the same problem with someone else in the future.  [/quote]

I feel your pain. We went through a very similar-sounding situation except that we remained and remain communicative so didn’t need a therapist. Eventually after discussing over a year or two we reached a point when DW said she just wasn’t interested in sex anymore, with anyone, and wouldn’t be able to make herself do it enough or fake it enough for me to be happy. She said she’d be ok with my taking another partner instead. But as you say, this isn’t what I want. I’ve been trying to be open to the idea yet despite what I see on this board all the time, it just isn’t that easy. Maybe I’m self-sabotaging since I don’t really want to be with a woman other than my wife, or maybe it’s that I don’t know how to go about finding an AP (as opposed to dating), even though I’ve tried, but now I’m frustrated at home and frustrated with myself. I hope you fare better. [/quote]

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