Reply to Nate Silver: "Go to a state school"

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]The only data he actually cites doesn’t really support his claim.

1. Public perception of higher education generally has slipped. This doesn’t support the claim that elite colleges are harmed more than state schools.

2. Polls that say private schools are not worth the cost of public. Again this doesn’t distinguish between “elite” and non elite public. Maybe people would say “yes, I wouldn’t pay for Elon but I think MIT is worth it”

3. Harvard perception. The division along political lines suggests that this is a political issue. Republicans voters have been told to hate those east coast liberal colleges and their students. But the average Republican voter isn’t hiring anyone. It would be more interesting to see a poll along socio economic and geographic lines. Do NYC republicans have the same view? That’s more relevant than people in Alabama.

Maybe the book will have more information but otherwise this seems like a whole lot of opinion and conjecture for now. [/quote]

I'm a hiring manager who has definitely had opinions of elite colleges change over the last few years. Also a graduate of an elite college myself.

Should reread his post carefully instead of jumping to conclusions. Silver speaks to everything you raised. [/quote]

+1 similarly situated hiring manager. I need people who work hard and listen to other people’s opinions, not people who feel entitled to a top spot because their parents rode them through high school and they prepped well for standardized tests.
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Heard something similar from a research scientist. They said that state grads made better RA than ivy grads who felt cleaning equipment was beneath them, and kept touting how they went to "some elite" college.[/quote]

This is some seriously stereotyped thinking.  Some bosses don't like to feel threatened by their "underlings" too and purposefully hire for  those who seem more subservient so they won't get shown up.  Some have chips on their shoulders about schools too.  Just judge people on their merits and don't make up some generalized stories about the "elite" or "state school grads."[/quote]

I've met far more kids from Elite schools with "chip on their shoulder" than from state schools.  If I'm running a Chem or Bio lab, the entry level positions for BA/BS degrees most likely includes cleaning and prepping equipment in the job description.  Those jobs are well known for being grunt work jobs.  I want to hire someone who is going to do that job and do it well, not someone who is going to spend their days complaining that they are not yet getting to do the "real work".  Well if you want to "do the real work" you have to work your way up and most likely go get your MS/PHD.  Otherwise you start doing the grunt work and not getting paid a lot (for having a Stem Degree).  
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Sounds like a crappy system that the "elite" students are right to challenge tbh. Why do you need a college grad for a "grunt work" job?  Bio/chem research is notorious for keeping people in low-paying environments for way too long given how challenging the major is (e.g. having to do post-docs to get a research job).  Sounds like it could use people to question the system and envision new opportunities and ways of working.[/quote]

DP you are correct that research jobs in the bio/chem field don't pay well enough, but that's really beside the point. I work in a field that requires a lot of writing, and a person out of college or grad school, whether it be an Ivy or a public university or anything in between, is not ready to produce documents ready for prime time. We have to start them with the less glamourous work, and spend a lot of time correcting and rewriting their work, because that is how they learn. I had the misfortune of working with a Harvard grad that came in to an internship assuming he was super smart and didn't need to learn anything, and could not take feedback. If you can't help with the grunt work, and are still learning how to do the "real" work, and can't take feedback, then you aren't going to be a valuable member of the team. Needless to say, I torpedoed his effort to get a full time position with us.

The other problem with offering jobs to Ivy league grads is that if you are not McKinsey or the IMF or whatever they all think they are doing you a favor by considering a job at your org/agency/company. Meaning the odds of them accepting the position are lower than with others. Meanwhile you risk losing other strong candidates.[/quote]

Graduating from an elite college does not entitle you to skip the learning process on any job.  You are not any smarter/better than someone from State U who did well in college.  Ultimately success in the real world comes from how well you take feedback, work well with others and can be an important part of the team, which means doing your job even if you think the work is below you.  You need to understand all aspects of the work, not just the high level "exciting/glamourous" part.

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