Reply to What are my child's chances of getting into the IB program?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. [b]She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math[/b]. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%). [/quote]

IB kids take high level math. it's not a STEM program but that doesn't mean IB is weak on STEM subjects. [i]My kids (and many of their friends) took AP Cal BC in their junior years followed by high level IB math in senior year[/i][/quote]

How did they do that? The IB math classes are two-year classes.

[i]Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation HL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL[/i]

https://www.ibo.org/programmes/diploma-programme/curriculum/mathematics/
[/quote]
[b]The "two year" math is not taking IB HL math for two years.[/b] Rather, it is about taking the IB math exam after year 2.  IB HL Math covers 2 years of math.

My DC did the same:  Jr year AP BC Calc; senior year IB HL math and MVC/diffeq. Then took IB HL math exam senior year.[/quote]

Yes, it is. You take IB math for two years. Then you take the IB math exam. That's what makes them two-year classes.[/quote]
? My kid was at RMIB last year, took the HL IB math exam.  They did not take HL math for 2 years.   This is the pathway they took:

IBAAF
IB Pre calc
AP BC Calc
HL math & MVC

Maybe you are confusing the prior years IB label math classes with HL math.[/quote]

[b]I think what PP is saying is that the AP BC calc class serves as the first year for IB HL math.[/b] The exam covers two years worth of content which is taught to you over those two years regardless of what the class is called.[/quote]

I guess so, at RM? Because elsewhere, you take IB HL math (or IB SL math) for two years. And yes, the IB exam covers two years of content.[/quote]
Which IB program in MCPS does this, where you take two years of IB HL math, and not the prescribed pathway from above?[/quote]

At Kennedy, IB HL Math is 2 years and the class is called Stats & Calc. The first year is equivalent of AP Stats while the 2nd year is (roughly) equivalent of AP Calc AB.[/quote]
That means that the IB programs are not the same.

Here's RMIB math pathway, page 18 (19 physical page).

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2022-2023-ib-course-handbook.pdf

My DC followed the path: AP BC Calc in 11th, then IB HL math and MVC in 12th.[/quote]

My guess is that Kennedy doesn’t offer MVC. Einstein doesn’t. I don’t know about BCC. RM has always had the most challenging course offerings among the IB schools. MCPS plays fast and loose with the IB Math sequence and it is confusing.  I had a kid transfer from an IB high school overseas.  The way MCPS implements IB is a joke and diploma participation rates in these schools are abysmal.[/quote]
? RMIB is super hard compared to all the other IB schools in MCPS, and the diploma rate is above 90%, has been for many many years.  That's why the in cluster students not in the program choose not to participate, though they can take the classes.[/quote]

The IB Diploma Programme at RM is not any harder than the IB Diploma Programme at any other school. It's the same IB Diploma Programme content. It's the same IB Diploma Programme tests. If RM adds stuff that isn't part of the IB Diploma Programme, then that isn't the IB Diploma Programme - by definition. Also, as far as I know, RM students not admitted to the magnet program in 9th grade can and do participate in the IB Diploma Programme.

The IB Diploma Programme "rate" is presumably the number of students who actually do everything required by the IB Diploma Programme, divided by the number of students participating in the the IB Diploma Programme - right? [b]My guess is that the rate is high at every school in MCPS. [/b] You don't go into the IB Diploma Programme unless you're bright and ambitious (or your parents are). Taking IB classes =/= participating in the IB Diploma Programme.[/quote]

[b]Your guess is very wrong.[/b] I forgot where you can find the diploma graduation rates, but outside of RM, they are not great in many MCPS high schools. Especially the newer Regional IB programs at Kennedy, Watkins Mill and Springbrook.[/quote]
What makes your guess better than my guess?[/quote]
dp.. because they did publish the IBDP rates for the different schools, and RMIB was much higher.[/quote]

Do you have the source for that and if so can you repost it? I was looking for that the other day and had a hard time finding it.[/quote]

I do not think the difference in IB diploma graduation rates means what you think it means.  Do you think that a higher IB graduation rate means better teachers and a better program?  I don't think so.  The open IB programs have a different goal - to allow anyone to take an IB class.  Just because a kid chooses to take one IB class, doesn't mean that that student isn't as smart as the kids taking the full IB load.  Also, many kids in open IB schools actually take a mixture of IB and AP classes that is just as rigorous and valued as an IB diploma.  My DC did this and went to top 5 undergrad Ivy and top 3 grad program.  No admissions committee cared that DC hadn't done full IB.

It's not the case that a lower IB diploma rate at an open IB program means a worse program or worse teaching.  It is true that the class curriculum and requirements at an open IB program are exactly the same as an admission only IB program.  That's what makes IB IB -- it's the same everywhere.  [/quote]

From MCPS:
"In 2022, the share of graduates who took at least one IB exam ranged from 15.8 to 32.8% among IB schools. The percentage of 2022 graduates who earned at least one IB score of 4 or higher varied from 14.3 to 29.8% across all schools offering the IB programs."

Please see performance data by high school and come back to say that all of the programs offer the same quality.
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/230209_2022_AP_IB_Exams_HS%20Principals.pdf
[/quote]

Thank you. This is the resource I was looking for. [b]MCPS should be ashamed of itself with the kind of performance included in this report.[/b] Only B-CC, RM and Einstein are doing well with IB.[/quote]

What do you base that statement on? Especially keeping in mind that a lot of students take individual IB classes without being in the IB DP - just like they take individual AP classes. And, of course, especially keeping in mind that students in the RMIB magnet are in the RMIB magnet because they are students who score highly on standardized tests. It doesn't say anything about the quality of instruction in the RMIB magnet vs other IB programs.

I would be interested in numbers of IB DP candidates and IB DP recipients for each school. To calculate the success rate, you would divide the number of recipients by the number of candidates.[/quote]

IB Math Analysis and Approaches exam: The only schools with more than 50% scoring 4 or higher were B-CC, RM and Einstein.

IB Bio: The only schools with more than 50% scoring 4 or higher were B-CC, Rockville, RM and Springbrook.

The IB schools that consistently have kids with mean IB exam scores lower than 4 are Kennedy, Springbrook, Watkins Mill and Seneca Valley. One of these scores had kids with a mean score below 4 in 7 exams.

That's a problem and the pattern of where the problem is (by school at least) seems pretty clear to me.

Why you see nothing wrong with those outcomes, I don't know.[/quote]

What's the problem, exactly? Students are taking IB classes? Students are taking IB tests? Please explain.[/quote]

Four of the IB schools consistently have kids scoring below 4, which is considered the minimum acceptable score for the exams.

That means those schools, which are the four I named, are not as strong or effective at educating students to the IB curriculum and standard as B-CC, RM and Einstein. So, as with most things in MCPS, you have quite a bit of unevenness and inconsistency in outcome with IB for your kid, depending on which school they go to.

Which goes back to the original point that not all IB is created equal within MCPS. Some schools are clearly consistently better at it than others. And RM and B-CC for sure are at the top. Einstein and Rockville are in the middle and the bottom rung is Springbrook, Watkins Mill, Kennedy and Seneca Valley.[/quote]

Except you're comparing two things that aren't the same. You're drawing a conclusion that isn't true.

Those schools "at the bottom" have yet to graduate a magnet cohort for the IB. The students at the schools who have so far taken exams for IB classes were entirely self-selected at FARMS schools with a high proportion of non-native English speakers. Whereas BCC, Einstein, and Rockville all have... how shall we say, white and Asian kids with money.

This is all obvious to anyone with a clue, but you like to put other people down to feel better about yourself. No one is tying you to a train track and demanding you send your kids to Seneca. Maybe stop putting them down.

Also, and again, this isn't rocket science: course catalogs change due to demand. When schools have a demand for a specific IB class, they have the class. Sometimes that means classes change from what's posted. [/quote]

Agree with the apples-to-oranges observation.

Course catalog options still are a problem if a student at one school will have access to a class but a similar student at another school won't (due to the second not having a large enough cohort of similarly performing/interested peers).[/quote]

This fact is true across the entire district regardless of IB program status.  Not every school offers every class. Also some classes that are offered may not be held because not enough students register.[/quote]

I don't know why class offerings is such a big deal. A college is going to ultimately compare your child with their peers at their school. They're going to check if your kid took the most rigorous courses available to them and how they performed compared to the students at the school. The fact that MVC isn't offered at your high school doesn't reflect on your child's ability and in fact  I'm glad it isn't offered at my DD's high school. At the end of the day our goal is to get her into the college of her choice and she has better chances of getting there by being one of the top students at her school,which DCUM frowns upon.[/quote]

Oh, I don't know...maybe it's important because a student might [i]want[/i] to take such courses and the availability of that being based on one's zip code is an equity issue?   :roll:

[b]Separately, if there were two applicants with all things being equal from a "most rigorous available" stand, don't you think a university more likely would accept the application showing higher-level classe[/b]s?  Do they even get (or pay good attention to) a key of the most rigorous courses at each school along with applications so that they could make that judgement?[/quote]
DP but which part of [quote]A college is going to ultimately compare your child with their peers at their school. They're going to check if your kid took the most rigorous courses available to them and how they performed compared to the students at the school.[/quote] don't you understand?[/quote]
Well, what part of "all things being equal" don't [i]you[/i] understand.

Ex: Both Marta and Sandra are in the same %ile for grades/GPA at their respective schools, each have the same test scores and their essays, etc., rate out the same for a top-20 admissions office to which they each applied. Each has taken the most rigorous HS courses, including IB, available to them, but the difference happens to be that Marta's school afforded her access to IB Analysis HL while Sandra's did not, leaving her with IB Analysis SL (or maybe even just IB Applications SL).  An admissions office might see the limitation, but [b]they are likely to take Marta over Sandra because there is a differentiator in her favor.
[/b]
The solution may not be to force Sandra's school directly to offer IB Analysis HL just for her or just for an unmanageable few.  It may be to provide alternative access to that course (e.g., virtual) or to do something else that would tend to offset the access issue.  The point, here, is awareness to support family decisions vis-a-vis any current situation and advocacy aimed at a future state of reasonably equivalent educational experiences/opportunities for students with similar abilities/interests/needs no matter where the system provides those educational services.[/quote]

[b]Says who?[/b][/quote]

DP. Exactly. The schools are very much aware that not everyone lives in a home that is inbound to a school that offers the course. Most likely Marta attends a school with lots of other students who applied to the same school; but who are just as qualified as Marta; however not as many students from Sandra's school applied and/or is qualified. Sandra would have a leg up on this one. [/quote]

This. The bar isn't "take the hardest courses available in the entire United States." It is "take the most rigor possible in your own personal high school."

This is one reason why magnet programs aren't necessarily a "bonus" for collegiate applications - it condenses a lot of similar kids into a specific school and maxes out the available rigor. No one should choose one of those programs because they think it will give them a leg up on admissions - they should choose it because it is the specific HS experience they are looking for. [/quote]

My husband and I thought about this when looking for houses, and strategically decided that because of this reason, our kids (who are bright and motivated; but not top 2% magnet type kids) were probably better off not attending the sought after W schools nor schools with an admission only magnet program. We're very happy with the IB program at our high school (the one that a previous PP said was at the bottom tier), and yes, it does have IB Analysis HL.[/quote]

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