Reply to "The [abortion] law has created torture."

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Reply to " "The [abortion] law has created torture.""

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I’m really not interested in hearing what a father thinks. Why is he speaking for the mother? Why don’t he let her speak for herself? [/quote]

Because she could have left to get the abortion. Because people raised money for the family to do so. Because they chose not to.[/quote]
That wasn’t in this article.[/quote]

It was in previous articles. Sorry your sources are poor reporters of the truth[/quote]

1. The couple worried they could be arrested if they sought an out of state abortion and voiced concern about ensuring they could be there for their existing child
2. [b]How sad of a world we are in that a woman would have to travel out of state for ethically appropriate healthcare[/b]
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+1
It also puts the healthcare of women in the remaining free states at risk. There aren’t that many obstetricians to go around. 
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Anyone traveling to a state where abortion is still legal needs to show their voting record. If they voted GOP, nope, no taking services. You bought the ticket, you take the ride.[/quote]

On the other hand, if this woman’s family starts voting for pro life candidates, that could be a lot of people changing sides. Milo’s parents, her parents, her 6 siblings, their spouses. That’s almost 20 people without getting into extended family, church, or friends. This is how change happens. Unfortunately because of republicans, a lot of babies are going to have to die, families will go into debt to pay for hospital bills that shouldn’t have been needed, some women will lose their fertility and lives along the way, and it’s going to break families apart with the stress of dying children, debt, and grief. But they will have won for a little while. [/quote]

It may cause some people to change sides, but I doubt it. I have many prolifers in my own family who would stare down this kind of suffering, explain it away as God’s plan and good for them leaving open the possibility for a miracle, and then go right on back to the same crap way of voting. They don’t want to hear that they forced avoidable suffering on their loved ones. They don’t want to take accountability for they’ve done and what they supported.

They are all just “innocent Germans” who only cared about the economy. [/quote]

Omg yes, this. I know all the same people, sadly.[/quote]

Unfortunately. Abortion is also a violent procedure[/quote]

A late term abortion involves injecting potassium 
chloride into the heart to stop it  That's it. That's violent vs watching the child gasp for air?

Sadly, palliative care for a newborn infant is still lacking in terms of knowledge among providers amd actual research for how best to apply it. It happens, but isn't so common to deal with a sudden infant death that is occurring within hours of birth. Research will improve given new laws that will require it more frequently, but undoubtedly, healthcare isn't as good as this as you might think for a newborn, let alone a newborn dying within 99 minutes requiring an IV and VERY quickly sorting out titrating up medication dosages.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5835990/[/quote]

Mother still has to deliver. Traumatic either way, no?[/quote]

My staunchly conservative brother and sister in law were anti abortion till they found themselves in a very similar situation to this woman with a fatal diagnosis. My sister in law chose the potassium chloride and D&E route.[/quote]
Please slap them the next time you see them and tell them they are hypocrites. People like this deserve to be slapped - I've cut off evil family members who do this sh-- and I hold them accountable for supporting evil.[/quote]

I posted this and no, I will not. Do you do this with your conservative family members? Having honest conversations leads to progress. Shutting them leads nowhere.[/quote]

Honestly, sometimes they need to be confronted with the same bilious invective they would have happily spewed on someone else back when they thought they’d be immune from consequences. Or at least a reminder they are fortunate to have had supportive family members that understood that these things are awful tragedies and you are choosing the best and humane course out of bad options.

Otherwise- these people are just coming away with the same “my abortion is a moral abortion” takeaway that leads them to restrict rights for others and results in less connected or wealthy women getting killed. [/quote]

Honestly, there's a reason that no one talks to you IRL and that all of your friends and family have dropped you and don't respond to you.  [/quote]

Nice chat, but I generally don’t befriend fascists. If they dropped me I never noticed, my calendar is full.

Good on you, though. They love to kill people and relish in their “pro life” moral authority, knowing “libs” like you will have their back when it’s their lives on the line and will be quiet and discreet while they go right back to voting to kill other people. [/quote]

I'm a liberal and I hate that kind of "cut you off and then smack you rub your face in it when I'm right" sh*t. Why? IT DOES NOT HELP, IT HURTS. I say this as a liberal with very conservative family members. They actually listen to me when I talk respectfully and point out concerns with their POV on certain topics. I have friends who talk that way of "just cut them off" and Every. Single. One. Of. Them. Lives in a sealed bubble of only people who think like them and makes it so easy to say this stuff. If you want to actually win the war you need to UNDERSTAND and directly address the other point of view to address it. Repeatedly. Over and over. That is a smart war tactic.
[/quote]

Hon, they listen to you respectfully and then they do what they want. Tell yourself what you need to tell yourself, but some people JUST DO NOT UNDERSTAND until they experience it, and even then, they lack the self awareness to process how things would have been much worse for themselves if they got the treatment they wanted others to get.

They are trying to persuade you too. They most likely think they have God on their side. They are testing out their taking points on you. I’ve seen their literature- don’t be fooled into thinking you are making a difference.

Rubbing their faces in it might be the only thing that can work. God knows we’ve tried everything else in the past 50 years. Sad, but I’d rather rub their faces in their own tragedies than mine or an innocent’s. [/quote]

Again, if you don't engage in conversation, you never win. I don't rub anyone's face in anything. I especially wouldn't do that w/ a conservative as that would certainly confirm their preconceived notions about liberal smugness. And FWIW, my conservative family members aren't all religious, so Christian beliefs aren't the reason all conservatives have certain stances. You might learn that if you talked to some of them. I know atheists who are anti-abortion without restrictions.
[/quote]

I know plenty of so-called “libertarian” atheist men who are happy to use abortion as a tool to control women because they are insecure in their masculinity or afraid a one night stand is going to reject their seed or something. I’ve met all sorts of forced birthers. I don’t really care their reasons, they don’t matter. They didn’t logic themselves into the box and I’m not going to logic them out. It may be helpful to get new talking points that may make it through the less thick of the skulls, but learned experience is what gets us out of this box we are in now.

Did you think we got Roe because women changed hearts and minds? No, we got Roe because enough middle class white men had enough middle class white women close to them die that they had a real problem on their hands. Dead wives, abandoned children, dead law clerks leaving a caseload. It appears we are going to have to go down the same road again because we learned nothing in the last 50 years. And I will be happy to “educate” the monsters who forced it to happen. 
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