Reply to The Last of Us - HBO TV show (With game spoilers)

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]It was a really wonderful episode. I was minorly spoiled for it because I follow Tom & Lorenzo and they'd seen it before it aired and posted several non-spoilers but rave comments about it before it aired with stills from the episode so I knew from the jump base don context clues that Murray Bartlett was going to show up and also that presumably they would have a relationship. So I think that dulled the emotional impact of the storyline a bit for me but it was still incredibly well done. Murray Bartlett was wonderful as always but I loved what Nick Offerman did with that role, which was in many ways the same role he always plays except in a very unique situation and getting to see that character become vulnerable the way he does was so touching. I would love to see these two actors in something else again. Just really amazing. "You were my purpose." Gut wrenching but yes, Frank, romantic.

Also just want to echo the sentiment that sometimes storylines like this feel shoehorned in to deliver some requisite diversity to a show and this didn't at all. It felt totally organic and it did not feel possible to imagine this storyline with any other characters than this. It didn't feel like a "gay storyline" so much as it just felt entirely like Bill & Frank's story and their gender and sexual orientation was secondary to their unique characters and relationship.

I also liked that we are seeing this love story between them unfold in full before [b]we ever find out exactly what the nature of Joel and Tess's relationship was[/b], even after Tess has died. It feels like this episode and others will continue to hint at what was between them, and we will continue to get flashbacks to when Joel and Tess were together, throughout the season until it is more clear what they had between them. And I like that way of telling their story because it allows us to see it through Ellie's eyes a bit, as she is also on the outside looking in, but unlike Ellie, we are also getting a Birdseye view via a parallel storyline like this that likely has some relationship to Joel and Tess (as is made clear in the scenes between the four of them and also in Bill's note to Joel, where it is made clear that there are parallels between Bill and Joel though also clear differences that I think bother Joel and he doesn't want to think about them).

Anyway, if this episode doesn't sell you on this show, not sure what will.[/quote]

I thought it was pretty clear Joel and Tess were a long-term couple. You don't think so?[/quote]

DP, I think I'd say, yes, BUT.  It was clear they had a long-term relationship, but I think it's also been made clear that Joel wasn't fully emotionally attached. I found the second episode to be kind of a snoozer, but if you leave out the zombie parts there is a lot there. Tess warms to Ellie and is very natural with her. You can see the possibility of a real attachment developing. And the scene right before Tess dies has a lot packed in. It's Ellie, not Joel, who immediately understands Tess is infected. Joel is shocked. And then Joel physically recoils from her/assumes a defensive stance. Somewhat understandable, but there's not even a moment of hesitation. And then Tess's last words are pleading with Joel to take Ellie and notably saying, "I never asked you for anything. I never even asked you to feel the same way." Bill's suicide note is a reminder to Joel that he failed in regards to Tess. But it's also a very heartfelt admission from a like person that it was worth it to fully open up oneself to fully caring for another.[/quote]

DP.  Wow!  You got so much more from that episode than I did!  I didn't pick up on that at all.  I guess Tess loved Joel but he was ambivalent about her?  Interesting.[/quote]

My take is that he locked himself down after his daughter was killed. I do think he and Tess were involved romantically, but he never let himself get too close or too emotionally intimate. He's furious when she shows up all beaten up in the first episode and she calms him down in very much a girlfriend type way.[/quote]

She actually says when she decides to stay behind that she didn’t blame him for not feeling the same for her as she did for him - but to protect Ellie and right the wrongs they did in their past. This clearly hints at a one-sided love between Tess and Joel. [/quote]

I'm the PP who originally said I'm looking forward to learning more about the nature of the relationship between Tess and Joel, and perhaps seeing more flashbacks to their time together before Ellie, and yes, these are the kinds of things I was picking up on as well.

I'll also note that in the first episode, there is a sequence where Joel goes back to their apartment to sleep, and we see Tess come and lie down with him (but we are not sure it's really happening or not because this is right after the big time jump from Sarah's death and we don't even know he's in Boston or much about his life at this point), and then we see him wake up and kind of look for her and then find her in the kitchen, and then they are talking immediately about practical things related to finding his brother, getting a vehicle, etc.

And now in episode 4, when Joel is telling Ellie about how he and Tess did some bad/unethical things while they were surviving (stuff like pretending to be injured in order to get someone to stop and help you, and then attacking them to steal their stuff), he talks about hooking up with Tess early on, while he and his brother were still on their way to Boston. So we know they were together for a long time, but it also seems like their partnership was more practical -- they had similar outlooks on the world, whereas Joel and his brother did not.

We also have to assume that Tess, too, lost people in the pandemic, and I think that also influences their relationship, and also the way Tess seemed to warm to Ellie and want to help her much more quickly than Joel. Obviously Joel was/is resisting developing a connection to Ellie because it reminds him too much of Sarah and he can't process that grief or risk it again. We also see Tess develop an easy connection with Frank, while Bill and Joel remain at arms length. But Tess clearly has a story too, and I hope we get to see some if it, especially because Anna Torv is a great actress and Tess was killed way too soon. I'd love a flashback to her life before the cordyceps.

Joel has only agreed to take Ellie out of loyalty to Tess. So she remains a critical part of the show even though she is dead. I really hope to learn more about her, and I think it will also help flesh out Joel's character as well.[/quote]

+1 to all of this. The only place I differ slightly is that I think the relationship was romantic/sexual, but was not necessarily formed or maintained because of that.

And yeah, I want an entire Tess flashback episode.[/quote]

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