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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Obviously everyone is not stunned.

But I'm stunned that some liberals are still shocked that the majority doesn't always agree with everything they stand for.  I'm shocked that some liberals think religious people shouldn't vote in accordance with their own values but liberals should be free to vote in accordance with theirs.  I'm shocked that whenever a political party doesn't get it's way there's talk of receding and revolution.  I'm shocked that so many people fall for Russian propoganda designed to separate us so we will more easily fall.   But mostly I'm shocked at how so many people live in their own political bubble that they fool themselves into thinking "everyone" thinks the same as they do when in reality it's just the 10-20 people they hang around.[/quote]

I’m not shocked at all.  But it’s fundamentally anti American to believe that you should impose Christianity on us.  It’s literally Amendment numero uno.  [/quote]

Sincerely believing that abortion is infanticide and opposing it for that reason isn't imposing Christianity on anyone, stop making false equivalencies. I know non religious folk, and non Christians that are anti-abortion. There is nothing anti-American about being opposed to abortion on the grounds that one sincerely believes that it is infanticide - according to that perspective banning abortion has nothing to do with violating ones rights any more than banning murder does. If you are unable to empathize with or understand this perspective even if you think its fully wrong, and you have distilled all anti-abortion folks into only Southern, fundamentalist Christians who are literally out to violate women's rights because they get off on that, it is sad but it is not surprising given how divided this country is. Folks on the right do the same thing - view pro abortion folks as blood thirsty / heathen baby killers when in reality most pro abortion folks sincerely believe that it isn't killing a child and it is just a medical procedure and therefore not allowing it is a major rights violation. My point is, have some empathy and understanding for folks from different backgrounds with different life experiences -- although it is easy to fall into the nihilist view that half of your country men are evil and out to get you and trample on your rights, this isn't the actual reality. Most folks on both sides are good human beings who believe what they believe sincerely.

ake this from a fellow pro-choice person who possibly just has different life views / experiences than you - [/quote]

You must have missed the case about the praying football coach pp. Now prayer is allowed at school events and participants can be forced to pray, as this coach's players were, or deal with the consequences. This is definitely imposing Christianity or other religions in public school. And we still have more decisions to come. Yipppee, American Taliban![/quote]

Op here. This is what I meant. There have been a slew of “religious freedom” cases in the last month. The Christian flag case, the state funded tuition case, now this praying at the 50 yard line. Also, abortion is up there. It’s clear these folks are injecting their religious views into these cases. They’ve eroded any semblance of a church vs state separation. Then you’ve got Boebert today saying that separation is stupid.

At the core, and distilling all your dismissive hand waving of these clearly evident facts, is that you’ve got this fired up, energized mass of conservatives and religious nuts who know they’re losing the culture war and so they do all these underhanded tricks, both politically and socially, to try and stymie social progress. They’re well mobilized and funded by churches etc.

You’ve got Mitch not letting democrats get their judges on the court, but instead putting on Fed Soc sponsored zealots. And look at Clarence thomas that psychopath with the nutty wife who is an insurrectionist. They know they’re losing in the court of public opinion. They know the church is bleeding members, but they’ll do anything ot takes, even Christian nationalism type of aggressive tactics, to try to desperately try to ensure they can shove religion and bad science and poor health policy (no abortion) down our throats.

All they’ve done is energize the enlightened and educated folks who are now deathly afraid their gay friends will lose their insurance benefits, or their wife will die from an easily preventable pregancy related condition that could have been properly addressed in a pre-Roe struck down era. They see that their contraception is at stake or that even gay sex could be criminalized. Or that, yes, interracial marriage which rests on the same sort of legal principle or unenumerated rights, could be tossed out by some out of touch, old school, regressive, zealot justices.

So don’t play coy. Don’t even act like you have a “majority” thats a joke. You just have cunning politicians and dedicated nut bags with church money behind them to help funds batsht right wing loonies to the court.[/quote]

I think both sides of the political spectrum have had great victories thanks to the supreme court. Gay marriage for many on the religious right was seen as a disaster a few years ago. Today many on the center and left view this new abortion ruling equally as a disaster. In my opinion, the reason why we got to this point is because people who support abortion never gave it full support. Opinion polls often reveal over half the country in support of abortion. However, once the issue is disaggregated further (i.e abortion at xyz weeks) then you have all kind of opinions. Unless we reach a point where people who support abortion support it without any restrictions, the side that is against abortion (which is laser focused because they are a firm NO) will continue to win. The debate should be framed more toward women's rights to choose and nothing else. But then again the Democrats are too distracted with semantics and woke stuff (sorry for borrowing a right wing term here). Sadly as a man I can just say this is another evidence that the United States continues to be truly a men-dominated world. Some will quickly argue that women in the north are "free",but many of those men in the north are not giving abortion the full support it deserves. They will quickly say beyond xyz week they are against it. Why should they care about any cutoff? The cutoff needs to be taken out of discussion then you will truly have 2 camps. As long as that grey area is there it gives those against abortion an advantage.

And finally the country is simply broken. If we all come to this conclusion then we can actually begin to fix it. Some think that the fact that all our major cultural issues are being decided by SCOTUS as opposed to Congress as a sign of a working democracy. I beg to differ here.

[/quote]

While I agree with some of your points, I think it is very sexist to suggest women are monolithic in their stances on abortion.  Many moderate and conservative women on both sides of the aisle are not in support of unrestricted abortion and some even support full bans.  This is not just a male vs female issue.  It's not just a religious issue or political party issue.  [b]It's a moral values issue[/b].  And as you pointed out, opinions vary widely on both sides when it comes to the morality of an elective abortion of a viable fetus.[/quote]

And yet, people do not have the right to impose their version of morality on others.[/quote]

People absolutely have the right to vote on issues.  That is what happens in democracy.  People don't agree. People vote.  Majority rules.  States that have liberal majorities will enact liberal laws.  States with conservative majorities enact conservative laws.  Such is the way of the constitution of these Great United States.  Don't like it?  Try China.[/quote]

States that want to be slave states make slavery legal.  Deal with it [/quote]

As others have pointed out, abortion rights are not in the constitution.  Thus it is an issue for the states.  The 13th amendment prohibits slavery.  Thus slavery is not a state issue.[/quote]

+1[/quote]

Yep. The word women doesn’t appear in the constitution either. Women have no rights under constitution. They are not equal to men, no matter what color they are. [/quote]

Sigh. The 19th amendment.  [/quote]

Sigh. When people refer to the Constitution, they are referring to the original Constitution and the Bill oh Rights. Women are not referred to into these documents. The 19th amendment is the only mention.  [/quote]

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