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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote]Most (all?) “developed countries” have very different higher education systems. In Europe and the UK, the educational systems are generally set up to be a long process to weed out all but the most highly qualified students, and if you get off track early because you’re a late bloomer or have learning disabilities or don’t have a supportive home environment, that’s just too bad for you. Most Asian countries take that to a whole new level. Then the colleges themselves continue the process. These countries have lower levels of college graduates, and almost nothing of the support systems to get and keep disadvantaged students in the system. There was a discussion of this on another thread, but most don’t seem to realize that the enormous growth in support services provided by today’s universities cost money. Yes, new buildings etc are part of the cost, but the freely available tutoring and writing centers, counseling, etc etc that schools provide now is definitely a part of the increase in “admin” costs. When I was in college, your advisor might meet with you once a year, but other than that, you were on your own.

I have issues with the “everyone needs to go to college” mentality, but this country has made a decision that increasing access to college is a good thing. The result is a range of colleges, from relatively inexpensive state colleges to state flagships to private institutions. And guess what? If your kid is so smart and accomplished that they would have been able to attend college in say, Germany, then they will probably attract enough merit aid to attend college in the US for a minimal amount of $$.[/quote]

Sort of. It's true that education systems in all countries have some inequities and winners and losers. Upward mobility is challenging pretty much everywhere, including in the US, these days.

The primary difference at this stage, though, is that debt is viewed as inevitable for even middle class families in the US in order for their children to achieve a level of education necessary to remain in the middle class. That's simply not true in most other developed nations. In the US, we've raised barriers to entry for many careers at the same time that costs of higher education have risen exponentially. Throw in the massive growth in for profit colleges, which can be incredibly exploitative, and it's an untenable situation.

In Germany or France or the UK, you might be blocked from an elite education very early in life. So if your dream is to be an academic or a lawyer or something, you may simply never have the opportunity. There are inherent problems in this.

On the other hand, if you want to be a teacher or a physical therapist, you will be able to obtain your degree and necessary training without borrowing any money. Plus these countries offer some form of socialized medicine so you will not have to worry about access to basic healthcare while in school, even if making a mid-career change (in fact these countries have extensive supports for people to get re-trained in new careers after getting laid off, for instance). There are also considerably more supports for subsidizing housing, family leave, and childcare.

So it's possible to just be a middle class person in these countries and have a decent quality of life, be able to live relatively close to where you work, have kids without worrying how you will afford to do so, be able to take time off to care for your newborn or an ailing family member, access to quality healthcare, etc. And, if you have kids, you don't have to begin saving for a college education the moment the child is born (while also paying astronomical rates for private childcare, after returning to work just weeks after giving birth).

See how it all works together? Increasing, people in the US are looking at the promise of elite education and realizing it's not worth it. Sure, if you get good grades and work hard and are willing to take on debt, you can get a very good education from a high quality school, and major in whatever you want. And then you will spend the next 5-20 years paying off the cost of that education, while working jobs that have nothing to do with your major, in cities with skyrocketing housing costs, while desperately clinging to any job that will provide you with health insurance, and never buying a home or having kids because where the hell is that money going to come from? It's a broken system that really only serves a tiny group of people at the top while everyone else just lives in a permanent state of debt for their entire adult lives, praying that a medical emergency or job loss doesn't push them over the edge.

I will take Option B, thanks.[/quote]

This is such a DC bubble take on the world. You believe the only two paths in life are college or poverty. Believe it or not, it is possible to have a decent middle class quality of life in the US without going to college. I know lots of people who are doing that, as we speak. You need to get out more.

There reality is that a serious shortage of people to work in trades in the US — qualified pipe fitters, truck drivers, electricians  — all make good money with good benefits. The Unions will often provide free training to anyone who can do basic math and stay off drugs. However, US policymakers and politicians decided to convince people that they are a loser if they don’t go to college. You’re right that people are beginning to wake up, but it took a significant portion of an entire generation incurring college debt that they couldn’t repay for essentially worthless college degrees.  Now, there are many (on this board) who think the answer is that the government (our taxes) should pay for those worthless college degrees. Meanwhile, the Port of LA is completely choked with goods that can’t get to market because we don’t have people who will take a job making $70,000 a year that requires 7 weeks of training. I[b]f they save up and buy their own $160,000-$250,000 truck, an owner operator can make $350,000 or more a year.[/b]  Instead we have people with $360,000 liberal arts degrees working for $15 an hour at Starbucks. [/quote]

Until Google or Tesla drive them to bankrupcy like Uber did to NYC cabbies. Blue collar jobs are less resilient to change as white collar jobs.[/quote]

You’re delusional if you think white collar jobs are resilient to change.  Computers now do discovery for lawyers in a tiny fraction of the time it used to take young associates. The pace of that change is only going to continue. [/quote]

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