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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Devil’s advocate: is the new technique making kids into more creative writers? If so, maybe it’s worth it? I tend to think of grammar and punctuation as the “easy” stuff whereas creativity and flow is where genius lies, and we shouldn’t tamp it down by making kids self-edit. Many writers also say that they write/type continuously and only edit later. Editors are a dime a dozen, whereas writers who can craft a compelling story and evoke feeling with their prose are much rarer.

I do agree that the dumbing down of kids’ books is leading to crap writing. I posted a few days ago about HP books not being good literature and was flamed, but frankly... they’re not. [/quote]

I occasionally work as an adjunct at a public university in a major city. This type of thinking is why I have teach remedial English and writing to college students.

In the beginning, the poor grammar made me question whether they are fully fluent in the English. I thought maybe there were many international students who somehow made it through the cracks. 
Then I found out most of them were born and raised in the US. When I explained the rules of basic grammar to them, they told me no one ever taught them. This goes double for formal writing. They struggle to write 3 page papers. They don't actually understand how to compose essays, how to build arguments, etc. They don't understand that formal writing requires a more formal syntax. The tone is overly conversational, there's slang, or sometimes, the kids sound like they're texting their friends.

Sometimes, they even have problems understanding academic texts and articles. It's not a content issue. They literally can't read longer and more complex English sentences.

A good number of these kids were considered high achievers in their high schools. Apparently, they wrote alot in high school but never recieved formal instruction and/or feedback on their writing.

Reading their papers is one most depressing and soul draining experiences I've ever had. If I wrote that way as an undergrad, I would've failed on the poor writing alone. The education system definitely failed these students.

Creativity is important but so are tools (grammar, writing) that students use to express themselves. Ultimately, the lack of proper foundation limits their ability to express themselves.

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PP here and that’s terrible. What I meant was, maybe it’s okay to let them write creatively early on (so we don’t stifle the creativity), but the basics of grammar and punctuation definitely need to be ingrained in middle or high school.

As for the inability to read research papers, I wonder how much of that is due to screentime and social media causing decreased attention spans? I see that in myself sometimes, which is why I’m asking. [/quote]

No, you’re wrong and don’t understand how to teach writing or how children develop. There have been amazingly creative and talented authors throughout history, who all learned grammar and spelling and punctuation before wiring their first novel. Creativity isn’t stifled by learning the rules of the road. Rather, it’s enhanced, because when you learn the rules and norms effectively and EARLY you can move on to expressing yourself in a more effective and efficient way. Volume and creativity aren’t stifled or hampered by being given the tools to be a good writer. Just barfing on a page, or 20 pages, doesn’t reflect creativity. If nobody else can comprehend what you’re writing, or the mistakes are so distracting, you make yourself look foolish in the process. How does finding out at an older at that you’re not good at something, something you’ve been doing incorrectly and developed terrible habits that have become ingrained and are difficult to correct, how does that foster creativity? I promise you, kids who read a lot know that their work and the work of their peers isn’t up to snuff, they just don’t know how to improve. First you learn to walk, then you learn to run. [/quote]

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