Reply to How would you feel about losing your company-provided health insurance for "medicare for all"?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]How about regulating the health insurance and pharmaceutical companies to cut costs rather than focusing on limiting coverage for the sick and elderly?

I know it won’t happen, but dare to dream, right?

We have Cadillac insurance, and I don’t want to lose it. I’d rather see Medicare and Medicaid expanded for those who need it.[/quote]

Almost all countries limit health care for the elderly. [b] A 40 year old can get a heart bypass, but an 80 year old can't.[/b]  This is part of how they keep they costs low.

[b]Same for extreme preemies--in the US we try to save them, in other countries they don't. [/b] And if they die less than 24 hours after birth, they don't include the death in their infant mortality stats. Another way they save costs, while incidentally also improving their overall health outcome indicator numbers.

It seems many American don't understand the degree of health care rationing that goes on in other countries to achieve universal coverage at a reasonable cost.  Just like they don't understand how tightly college education is rationed to make it almost free.  These countries do not have a utopia where people get all the health care and education they want courtesy of the state.

I believe Americans are not culturally prepared at this time to be told no heroic measures can be done to save grandma or your long-planned and hope for baby or that sorry you didn't get a good enough grade on a test in high school so you just need to suck it up and forget your college dream because it's not happening.[/quote]

I don't think you actually know the details about the situations you are claiming as fact. I think you have probably been listening to talking points, not looking at data.

Here are some real stories about extreme preemies who were given every chance to survive in Canada (and did): https://www.todaysparent.com/baby/extremely-premature-babies/
"About eight percent of babies born in Canada are premature, according to the most recent Canadian Premature Babies Foundation report, published in 2014, and of those, 14 percent were extremely preterm." That's .. not "not trying to save them."

Additionally interesting, given the flack Japan has received: "Thanks to advancements in technology, research and medication, the minimum age at which there’s a reasonable possibility for a newborn to survive outside the uterus—known as the threshold of viability—has edged down to 23 weeks in Canada and the US, and just 22 weeks in Japan."

Here's a 2009 article on Canadian octogenarians (that is, people in their 80s) receiving coronary bypass surgery, and increasing survival rates: [u]Decreasing mortality for coronary artery bypass surgery in octogenarians[/u] at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2691916/

Don't post fearmongering and incorrect information.[/quote]

I'd like to see the stats for Europe and the UK.

Canadian and US doctors receive the same training and the degrees are mutually recognized, so not the best example for this.  As a previous poster noted, in many countries you are put on palliative care if you have a cancer with very low cure rates.  I am not saying this is wrong or a bad choice, but simply one that the vast majority of American would find hard to accept.

And Japan is in the position of a precipitous decline in births so investing in more babies is it worth it to them.

It is an absolute fact that countries with universal care ration it to those with low chances of survival or for whom very expensive medical treatments pay off with just a few months of extra life.  otherwise they simply wouldn't be able to pay for it.

You are being disingenuous to suggest otherwise--there is no nirvana country that provides all the sort of care you can get in the US with decent insurance free to all its citizens.

As long as we are talking about Canada, perhaps we can discuss how they and the UK have lowest number of MRI machines per capita in the industrial world and how it can take months to get an MRI for even suspected cancer.  That is why Buffalo NY has such a thriving business in MRI radiology for Canadians who pay out of pocket to get one quickly by crossing the border.

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