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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I have been reading DCUM for a while now, and I feel steeped in broken marriages, angry/depressed/overwhelmed parents, misbehaving children, and general snarkiness.  Almost never do I see a reference to a deep and profound faith, or even a thought about a Creator.  I do see plenty of snide comments about faith being only for the stupid, the weak, the unthinking, but I can't recall a single specific reason as to why belief in a Creator is so obviously dumb.

So now is your chance:  if you do not believe in God, why not?  Have you wrestled with this question and constructed a tight argument, or do you just not particularly care?[/quote]

In my depressed/angsty teen years, following 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina and clashes in my high school between LGBT groups and Christian anti-gay groups, I left religion. To be fair, I had never really liked the religion in which I was raised (conservative Protestantism) and my dad is agnostic, so the leap to agnosticism myself was not such a far jump. When I was agnostic, I felt there was no other way to be. How could a god exist when all these horrible things happened in the world? I could not find solace or meaning in a god that allowed the world to be so unjust, or in a religion (Christianity, both my own brand and the evangelical politicized version on the news) that focused on the sins of others.

I spent a good part of my younger life thinking that religion was for the weak and unthinking, that it was illogical and irrational, full of judgement and hypocrisy. It wasn't until I was older that I began to see more gray areas in life and in religion. So often, we allow a narrow and narrow-minded subset of religious people to claim to represent all religious people, when, in fact, there are plenty of good people doing good work in the name of religion, and people who find deep meaning and comfort in God and their religious community. I only thought of vague other religious people as unthinking, but never my grandparents or the Red Cross blood drive volunteers or the church group running the soup kitchen, etc.

I totally understand why people don't believe in God. I also respect people who have faith.[/quote]

A feel just like pp about people with religious faith, and like pp,  I don't respect ALL people who have faith -- just the ones who use their faith to do good works, or find comfort and peace for themselves and don't use their Fatih to judge others.  I know some religious people like that and unfortunately, know others who are not like that.[/quote]

I guess some people need someone else to tell them to “do good works”. 
[/quote]
How do you know the motivation of the person doing good works? Just because someone is volunteering with their church/synagogue/mosque doesn't mean they are only doing so because their religion told them to. What's wrong with a religion acting as an organizing body for good? Is it somehow lesser if "Joe Somebody" donates blood at a blood drive hosted by his church, rather than walking into a blood drive at a community center?[/quote]

PP said “the ones who use their faith to do good works”.

It’s not “lesser”. And I guess it’s good we have religion if there are people who need it to “do good works”.  Well at least [b]when they aren’t “doing good works” with ulterior motive[/b]s. 
[/quote]

You mean like trying to secure a place in heaven?  I suspect there are a lot of good religious people who would do good works just because they are good people and their church provides an outlet for their goodness.  They may not know themselves that they'd be just as kind without heaven as a motivation.[/quote]

Yes. “Doing good works” because they think they will somehow be rewarded for it is self-serving.
[/quote]

That’s not why people of faith do good works. [/quote]

That's certainly why some people "do good works". The bible even tells them they will be rewarded for it:

"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up."

"The point is this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully."

"Give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you."

"Whoever shuts their ears to the cry of the poor will also cry out and not be answered."

"So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."

"I the Lord search the heart and test the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.”

[/quote]

There have been centuries of debate over whether faith or good works is important. [/quote]

Good works are important to those who receive the results of them.  Plus they can make those who provide the good works feel good knowing they've done good.  Faith is good only if heaven is real.[/quote]

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