Reply to What’s the point of going to a top school if you end up in the same place as someone who didn’t

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[quote=Anonymous]How do you measure “ending up in the same place”?  You can’t know where the road not taken will lead. That’s not snarky. It’s reality.  I’ve seen very bright kids at the tops the HS class crash and burn, need to take time off, go on academic probation, be weeded out of something like Engineering or pre-med, decide to transfer colleges, and in one case drop out entirely and enter skilled trades.  And this is from kids in a mix or reaches, targets and safeties.  Some schools are just bad matches for certain kid— academically, socially, emotionally. And it’s hard for your specific kid to get a great outcome at a bad match.

“Outcomes” are an often cherry picked metric of where **some** kids end up. But, for example, you can’t measure engineering outcomes from a college that weeds out 50%+ of freshmen and sophomores engineering majors vs one that weeds out 20%.

A real life example. My DC is a IR major at W&M. Which is is a “weed out major,” with weed out classes”. Specifically, you need 5-6 semesters of econ and 6 semesters of a modern language to graduate (plus a lot of history, government, some sociology, actual It classes, a capstone etc). And even if you pass the intro Econ and foreign language classes and are on track after 4 semesters, you still have to apply and be accepted into IR.

DD was accepted to IR. Her roommate struggled with econ and came out with a C and a D in the intro classes and was not admitted to IR. Other kids DD knew could manage the 5 days a week for years of foreign language.   This kids often major in government, instead, which is basically IR for kids who can’t handle the breadth and rigor of IR. IR placement from WM is impressive. But, it doesn’t include every kid who wants the major. WM has fantastic Ir outcome, but is it better than a school that doesn’t gate keep and allows “weaker” students to major?

Now, this is my kids college.  Which I’m not afraid to question. And I see the value of stopping a kid who can’t pull a C in intro econ or intro foreign language from declaring a major that will require 4-5 harder, more advanced classes in these departments. But, they are weeding kids out.

You also cannot measure med school outcomes from colleges that support any kid who wants to apply vs one that counsels a decent percentage of kids off the pre-med track/ won’t write recommendations for all applicants.

And you can’t account for serendipity. I went to a T25 college best known as pre-professional. In the 1990s. No one was counseling me on outcomes.  I went in pre-med, hated it, and ultimately wanted a humanities PhD I was rejected from 8/8 PhD programs— as a phi beta kappa, summa, 98% GRE score. No one had asked me my goal, mentored me, given me access research or publishing options, sent me to conference.  And my college never sent kids to humanities PhD.

I was accepted at 3 T10 law schools and all 8 that I applied for— with the same GPA that got me rejected from PhD programs and an LSAT above 170. So, with an English major, law school it was.  But to be fair, I started as pre-med, so lack of a humanities PhD pipeline would not have deterred me.

And here the real serendipity.   I was a quiet hardworking, nice, kind nerdy kid in undergrad and law school. And have help three legal jobs. 2 of which I got through undergrad or law school connections/ friends  in very weird, right place, right time ways.  Through college and law school friends (genuine, I’ve stayed close for 25+ year friends, still exchange Christmas card friends— not me and my 100 sorority sisters).

I’m now a Fed dealing with DOGE. I practice in a very niche area of lawwith minimal (but some) private practice applications.  I am not likely to be RIF’d but my agency is miserable, and getting worse, and we are losing the ability to fulfill our mission. And sure enough, a law school friend reached out to ask if I was interested in taking one of the very few jobs out there that I am super qualified to do, by virtue of my federal niche. Prefect job. Perfect timing.  I start in a month.

Now, are my excellent outcomes in the working world a result of my undergrad and law school? Yes, to the extent the friends I made have recommended me for jobs. Would I have had a similar outcome at a different, lower ranked schools?  Did I make my own luck by developing the reputation if being nice, honest, hard working, smart etc?  Or are people hiring me 25 years after law school and 30 after college based on the college name and the phi beta kappa?

I guess I’ll never know. But it’s hard to believe an impressive undergrad or law school name would still be getting me hired if I were mean or incompetent.

I think your school name (and sometimes grades and recommendations and internships, depending on whether the goal is a job or grad school) gets you your first grad school or job. After that, alum network can help— but maybe in unpredictable ways.

And, I know I’m lot more likely to get behind/ recommend someone whose character, personality, work ethic and work product I know first hand than a random alum of my school.

My vote— the strongest academic/ reputation— in your kids field, not as ranked by USNWR or the whole school— **that is a good for for them and where they can see themselves being happy**. But don’t take undergrad debt out for “the dream school”. Paying back the debt can locks into making a certain income, which can actually limit your career path.

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