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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Honestly, these are poor indicators of quality of education.  The selection bias (literally) is huge, and the same is true for TJ.  You admit a smarter class, you get better scores.  Show me the school without a strong admission criteria and which draws from an average population demographically and achieves these results and I am impressed.  [/quote]

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My Public HS ( in another state)had 4 NM Finalists my senior year,16 NMSF , 20%  of class went on to Ivy League and many as sophomores because they AP'd out of their freshman year.It was not a magnet school.What I feel is informative about this and the reason I share it here is that what made the school was the intellectual drive of the kids that  was intrinsic to them and it started with the families that they came from .Many of the parents of these kids  were professors of science themselves at the local universities, members of our city's symphony( and I don't mean board members),writers,doctors, etc...What is different between the culture  evident on this forum and what I remember from HS is that these accolades  weren't really talked about by the kids or their parents. They were just announced once  in the newspaper and perhaps at graduation by an asterix next to the kids name, but not read out loud.My point is these kids were intrinsically motivated as were their parents who were scientists and intellectuals themselves. What sticks with me all these years later are the memories of  the way many students in even  the non-honors classes would passionately debate the teacher in class .To me that is more of an indicator of intellectual rigor and vitality, than GPA or SAT scores especially if your parents hire a tutor for you. Just my two cents.

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