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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]
This point can't be hammered enough. As the "real believers" define God downward, they essentially render Him meaningless--and alienate themselves from the vast majority of real believers.  That's great that you define God as "being" or "the primary cause" or what have you, but it's a philosophical dodge. If "God" is being, then obviously it exists. But only in the same sense that if you define God as "potatoes" then you've proved He exists as well.

Meanwhile, such a gambit does absolutely nothing to lend a shred of credence to the validity of, say, the Bible, Christian beliefs, or the divinity (or even the historical existence) of Jesus.[/quote]

I guess the point that needs to be hammered here, is that it's about faith. I can't prove God exists. Importantly, you can't prove that Abraham-Moses-Jesus were lying when they talked about bringing God's message. (And as for whether Jesus existed, there is widely-accepted evidence in Roman sources, so the real question is what you think the nature and meaning of his life, but this is a subject for another thread.)

We disagree about the faith question. And that's fine, really. But a little less hammering about what *you* believe to be true might bring you some of the peace that many atheists seem to lack--peace that you could find if you could accept that (a) not everybody thinks exactly like you, and (b) that's actually OK.  (Unless religious folks are trying to ban contraceptives or something, and I'm with you on that one.)[/quote]

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