Reply to Do churches generate a lot of revenue from the LGBT community?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]The ex Catholics I know (and they are legion) are either atheists now or super conservative and go to "Birdsong Bible Church" where they get a ready made social Group of brand-new family friends who suck them in. Literally no one is switching to "First Methodist" with the pride flag flying. I don't know who the target market is there.[/quote]Quite a few at Episcopal and UU congregations[/quote]

Those aren't churches, more like clubs[/quote]

LOL. "I will define 'church' as narrowly as I must to support my assertion that gay friendly churches are dying. If it's gay friendly and not dying, it's not a church."[/quote]

Here’s the thing — they are a “church” in some sense of the word, sure.

But any membership organization must have boundaries as to what the members believe or else the organization means nothing.  You can’t be a member of Greenpeace and hate the environment.  Or be a member of planned parenthood and be pro-life.

The Christian faith is based on a central premise that cannot be changed — that Jesus is the son of God, that he died for our sins, he rose from the grave, and that we are saved through our faith in him.  You must believe those four things at a bare minimum or you are not really a Christian.

Unitarians do not believe any of that.   So they can call themselves a church but it’s not a Christian church.

Episcolplians allegedly believe all of that.   In fact, they were involved in wars and everything else back in the day because they felt the RCC had strayed too far from believing that and added all this other unnecessary stuff to the christian faith.

But in more recent years, the episcolplians have certainly been at the forefront of progressive politics and moving further away from core Christian principles.   It’s very much a mixed bag now and varies from church to church.  [/quote]

Episcopalians clearly believe the core Christian premises that you outline. You being mad about the other stuff they believe doesn't change that they are Christians. Which means that's a gay-friendly Christian church absorbing ex-Catholics. An easy Google search will tell you that Episcopalian church attendance (not membership) sharply increased 2021-2023.  [/quote]

That same simple google search will point out that is because of the pandemic, and also tell you this:

[i]The Episcopal Church has experienced fluctuating attendance trends in recent years. In 2023, average Sunday worship attendance rose to nearly 411,000, up from 373,000 in 2022 and 312,000 in 2021, marking a recovery from pandemic-related lows. However, this level remains below pre-pandemic figures, such as the 518,000 average attendance reported in 2019 and 634,348 in 2014.  The 2023 data reflects only in-person attendance, with about 62% of congregations offering hybrid worship models that include online participation, though online numbers are not included in the official statistics.

[b]Long-term trends show a steady decline in both membership and attendance.[/b] From a peak of 724,789 average Sunday attendees in 2009, attendance dropped significantly over the following decade.  By 2021, average Sunday attendance had fallen to 292,851, a decline attributed in part to the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic and ongoing denominational challenges.  [b]Despite a recent rebound, the overall pattern suggests continued long-term decline[/b], with the Hartford Institute for Religion Research noting that the 2023 attendance aligns closely with projected trends based on pre-pandemic data.

In addition, structural changes within the church reflect broader challenges: the number of congregations decreased from 7,067 in 2010 to 6,754 in 2023, and the proportion of congregations with fewer than 100 attendees has increased, with nearly a third reporting 25 or fewer attendees on average Sundays.  Starting in 2024, new parochial report forms will include metrics for online worship, non-Sunday services, and outreach participation to better capture the full scope of congregational engagement beyond traditional in-person attendance counts[/i][/quote]

Nothing there in support of your premise. People stopped attending during covid and then came back or were replaced in similar numbers (Plus hybrid attendees, which at my non-Episcopalian church represent about a fifth of attendance). Pepple came back because they  find the church compelling.

And again, this is a Christian church, something that two posts ago you wanted to dispute because it didn't fit your narrative.

The question at the top of the thread was "do LGBT members make money for the church" and nobody thinks the answer is yes. I don't because I see the demographics at my own gay-friendly church, and you don't because you're convinced we're in decline as a result. Either way, that points to the flags being a sincere expression of welcome. Which is good. [/quote]

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