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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]DEI in large corporations can be misguided and suck AND systemic and structural racism can be real.  Individuals definitely get negatively caught up in crappy DEI-led decisions just like individuals get negatively caught up in the downstream impacts of structural and systemic racism.  And it feels not fair to all those people.

All the things can be true.[/quote]

+1 OP here. I completely agree.

Is me as a White person being offended by a DEI training, or being passed over for a job because another candidate was similarly qualified and Black, the worst thing in the world? Of course not. The problems DEI is trying to address that mainly impact BIPOC people are much worse than that

But significant amounts of money and time, including taxpayer dollars, are being devoted to these initiatives, and it's all being made up on the fly and often alienating the people that need to buy into it while often putting BIPOC people in positions that become untenable because they are viewed as diversity hires and part of the DEI "stuff" that everyone already rolls their eyes at.[/quote]

a white person being passed over for multiple jobs based purely on the fact that they are not diverse IS the worst thing in the world for that person, who may have a family to support, aside from dying or having a terminal illness.

I'm a staunch democrat but this is what the dems (and DEI initiatives) often get wrong. They assume a level of altruism that's wholly unrealistic and ridiculous to expect from any normal individual human. People are already struggling to handle their lives. You expect that if someone unemployed doesn't get a job they really want bc it went to a poc BECAUSE that person is a poc, they should just be ok with it? of course they aren't! They are devastated. They worked their whole lives to get to this point. they have kids maybe. And hence is born anger and resentment. 
No matter what preceded today, today is today and individuals are alive and they deserve to be judged on merit. [/quote]

It's not realistic to assume you are going to get offered every job you apply for. Getting jobs is hard. Lots of people have to spend a lot of time searching. No, it is not the worst thing in the world.[/quote]

Look—another candidate for brain de-worming. The PP didn’t say they expect applicants to get every job. Also, you are wrong if you think that racial discrimination is okay in any form.

Beating down on the majority of a nation is a mathematically fraught approach. It’s the kind of behavior that WILL get Trump elected, and then what happens.

[/quote]

PP said, "You expect that if someone unemployed doesn't get a job they really want bc it went to a poc BECAUSE that person is a poc, they should just be ok with it?" Nobody is going to "just be ok" with not getting a job they really want. Sometimes it's because someone else was a better fit, sometimes it's because someone else knew the right people, sometimes it's because of racial discrimination, which has had a much larger effect on POC than on White people in the grand scheme of things. I can't tell you how many times I've seen my boss push for hiring someone despite red flags because that someone knew somebody higher up who was pulling for them. Those people with connections have always been White.

I suspect what is happening is that the PP's spouse is applying for jobs that have lots of qualified applicants. Getting those jobs is going to be really hard. I don't think anyone should be discriminated against because they are White, but if a workplace is predominantly White it absolutely looks bad to hire more White people when there are qualified POC candidates.[/quote]

Who cares how it “looks” if the candidate is the best applicant? Businesses exist for profit, not so you can feel good. Many in-house applicants with invaluable institutional  knowledge are being side-stepped because they don’t meet a racial quota. It’s a fact. These programs hurt good employees and they hurt business revenue.

The only goal of DEI was to promote and hire a disproportionate number  POC to supposedly right to wrongs of yesterday.

The programs have NEVER promised   to ensure the best candidate wins, which is why colleagues are right to question the capability of new diversity hires. And this really sucks because I’m sure many were the best candidate.

But policies like this can’t have it both ways.…which is why their time is extremely limited.

[/quote]

Actually companies who are diverse have higher profits so …[/quote]

True, but context is important to avoid a false equivalency. A diverse company will be more successful if they truly chose the best candidate regardless of race. Outcomes are not the same for a company who places candidates for the sole purpose of meeting racial quotas. Ignoring white male candidates is a glaring example of this.

Look at any of major government agencies who have put national security at risk by lowering standards to fill subjective quotas.

Or, if you prefer, any of the top colleges who decided to throw out testing, sidelining objective scores to create more opportunity for POC. It didn’t work. The students they got were ill prepared and now the tests are back. MIT just dropped their formerly required DEI pact. Why? Because success follows natural diversity, NOT DEI.[/quote]

The colleges are bringing back standardized tests because there is a clear financial incentive. Using standardized tests for admission decisions helps them justify admitting richer kids that can pay for prep classes.

[b]Nobody is "ignoring white male candidates".[/b] They are getting interviews like they always have. The concern is that POC are getting the jobs that used to be held exclusively by White men.[/quote]

100% gaslighting. [/quote]

Who is being "ignored"? If I tell a candidate we can't hire them because they are White, that's not ignoring them. People who get ignored don't get interviewed and they certainly don't get feedback after the process is over.[/quote]
Read the post on 5/6 at 15:23. That white male is being ignored.[/quote]

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