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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Undergrad prestige does NOT matter. At all. It’s been empirically proven. [b]Smart kids do well anywhere[/b], whether they’re at UMD or Stanford.

Dale and Kruger. Dale and Kruger. Dale and Kruger!!![/quote]

This is the most valid point. Very few people are saying that prestige is everything, but to act like it's nothing is ludicrous. One obvious trend that better universities generally have better students is the fact that at prestigious colleges, the vast majority of students graduate in 4 years. On the other hand, the dropout rates are much higher at non-prestigious universities, as well as the students taking longer the 4 years to graduate. I think we can all agree that students who graduate in 4 years are better students than those who take longer or drop out altogether. Thus, since students at better colleges generally graduate in a more timely manner than those at worse colleges, students at better colleges are, GENERALLY, better students.[/quote]

It depends---why do the students not graduate in 4 years?   Is it because there are 20-25% First Gen students, are they 20-25% low income students, do majority of their STEM students do a coop, what percent are Foreign students who for whatever reason decide to transfer or take a semester off, etc.  There are so many reasons.  For first gen students, no matter how much the college does to help, some of those kids might miss taking a course the correct semester and need to add a semester to get all courses in, or they might need to take a lower course load for a semester or two because they are working to help pay for School (take 12 credits, not 16/17 and work 20-25 hours)---they don't have someone at home to guide them thru this process, as they are the first to do it. 
Similarly for lower income, they might drop out due to expenses or take a semester off as they figure out how to pay for the next year (or to work)----family might have financial issues and need them at home to help with other kids, etc. 
It does not mean these kids are not as "smart" or as "good of students".  It just means they don't live the same privileged life that your kids do.

If school has a large Engineering school, there is a good chance those kids are taking more than 4 years---it's an intensive major, so many need an extra semester to fit in all courses (most engineering programs take 10-12 credits more than even a Chem/Bio major requires).  If kids do Co-ops, then they will certainly take 5-6 years to graduate as engineers.  I don't view that as a bad thing---coop is an awesome part of the experience, yet it will "ruin the 4 year grad rate".

So to me, as long as the 5  year grad rate is at least 85-90% I'm good.  I'm smart enough to realize that the main reason kids take longer/drop out has more to do with the kid's home environment than their "smarts".  [/quote]

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