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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Purdue is a strong no-nonsence STEM school. Being STEM school, you can't fool yourself with woke bs and expect real scientific discovery emerges by itself. You need best talent people to make it happen. MIT research has shown that SAT/ACT scores, although they are not everything, have a close correlation with students' academic success in college. We can't be deliberately blind. It's insane for colleges not to consider the test one of the important criteria for their admissions.
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I think this is really behind it. It's a big engineering school. Some schools with engineering programs were TO last year but not for their engineering programs. Also, there was a minimum Math score required for consideration.[/quote]

And yet Caltech manages to do it. It must be a second rate engineering school since it doesn’t use an exam that tests basic algebra and exactly zero science or engineering concepts to choose who it admits. [/quote]

Caltech is an extraordinary place with approximately infinite resources and approximately zero students. Purdue is a pretty good school, for an ordinary school. That’s the actual significance of this. Most T100 universities (and the overwhelming majority by enrollment) are decent schools with limited resources educating tens of thousands of students at a time. In other words, most schools are unlike MIT/Caltech, and a lot like Purdue. [/quote]

We are talking about admissions. So the infinite resources don’t really factor into this. It’s just the size and ability of the admissions office. [/quote]

You think the admissions office admits as many students as they want with no consideration for the school's resources?[/quote]

No I think the school’s resources are irrelevant in determining whether to use a standardized test in evaluating applicants. It is discrete thing that isn’t connected to the university at large.  How large is a budget for an admissions office?[/quote]

Why are you so determined to believe that Caltech doesn’t invest significant time and energy into reviewing each application, especially when making the final selection? I’m sure the school would tell you that they do! [/quote]

of course they do.  which is why going TO isn't an issue. it's not a matter of the SAT being necessary, it's a cover for an admissions office. if Caltech can do it, so can MIT and so can Purdue. The relative sizes isn't the basis for an argument that test are necessary. They're only used because the school doesn't want to spend the resources to figure it out.[/quote]

So you think Purdue should be forced to increase its application fees and/or tuition in order to do admissions the expensive way, when there’s a less expensive option that’s just as predictive of success. [/quote]

No, I don't. They can do what they want, but let's then not also pretend that it's because they're a STEM school and this is the only way to do it. Clearly a different way exists, they just don't want to pursue it. You've just agreed it's a choice on the part of the school between a closer review of applications and using a standardized test and that both are just are predictive of success.  So why criticize schools that remain TO? [/quote]

I didn’t criticize Caltech. I said it wasn’t a useful model for Purdue. Your response is “yes, but if Purdue wanted to spend more money to get the same results, then it would be.” Ok? Purdue doesn’t want to spend extra money on admissions to get the same results. Ergo, Caltech is not a useful model for Purdue.

Oh, and I also said that most students attending T100 schools attend schools that are more like Purdue than Caltech. I think that’s indisputable.

Caltech is its own thing, and it can go on doing its own thing.

Purdue is more typical, so it’s more of a bellwether.[/quote]

fair enough - but the response was based on the earlier posts:  "We can't be deliberately blind. It's insane for colleges not to consider the test one of the important criteria for their admissions."

it is, and should be, a matter of choice for the school. They should choose what works best for them since multiple paths exist to get the desired result.

I don't see any college as being a bellwether. Certainly you have a number of schools in the 1500-2500 students per class range electing to continue TO and some not.  Are schools that size more like Purdue or Caltech?[/quote]

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