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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]My son is in 5th grade and we've done scouts since he was in K.  I am in it for the outdoor experience and the life skills.  He and his den planned the majority of our camping trip last weekend - food, making fires, cooking over the fires, coming up with a campfire skit they all agreed on, emceeing the evening program for the younger scouts, cleaning up the camp site.  It was amazing.  It's been a really, really great experience for him.

As a practicing Quaker with many LGBTQ friends and family, do I love the historical baggage and the "hero"/military aspect?  No.  No I do not.  I REALLY wish there were a strong outdoor school or program in the DC area, like Living Earth in Charlottesville.  Honestly, I don't understand why there isn't.  But there isn't, and so we are stuck with the scouts.[/quote]

Has your son ever asked how you reconcile your support for your “many LGBTQ friends and family” with your support for an organization that allows them to be excluded? Do you have plans for how you will answer when he does? Have you thought about what it will mean if he doesn’t?

If, God forbid, your son is a victim of abuse in Scouts will you be able to tell him you had no idea this was a problem? Will you tell him it was because planning a camping trip was too much of a hassle?[/quote]

You know Scouts include LGBTQ members right?  [/quote]

DP here. 
We have several LGBTQ members in our troop, parents and children. I can think of 7, but there are probably more that I don’t even know about. Fine by me. The more, the merrier. That’s what’s missing from this thread: an understanding that there are many welcoming troops. [/quote]

I think everyone knows that there are welcoming troops. People object to the idea that access is based on whether your troop happens to be a welcoming one. An organization has to take responsibility for everything it allows, so BSA allowing troops to ban LGBTQ kids means BSA is a discriminatory organization. They’re allowed to say “hey, our values are inclusion so if you want to be BSA you have to be inclusive” but they’d rather just allow LGBTQ kids to be excluded. [/quote]

I don’t see it that way at all. Your average parent who wants to provide inclusive programming is already doing good work. They are giving time and energy to providing a strong scouting experience to kids willing and able to come. (Remember: you don’t have to join your nearest troop. We didn’t, because the nearest troop excludes girls.) I do not hold these parents responsible for BSA’s policies. They are working from within to offer great programming for all, and maybe one day they can help change policies organization-wide.

If we hold these well-meaning parents accountable for the policies they CAN’T control, then we won’t get anywhere. Sometimes change starts small. [/quote]

Is pointing out that the parents are volunteering their time and energy with an organization that allows discrimination “holding them accountable”? I mean parents do know that BSA allows discrimination, that’s not a secret.

I also don’t see the change you think the parents are making. If the kids show up and the funds get raised and no one challenges the policies because they CAN’T, then when is this some day? Like ten years from now, do you think BSA will require troops to be inclusive? I don’t see it. And the reason is, people are still willing to show up for them while they discriminate. [/quote]

In 2015, the executive committee unanimously voted to end the ban on LGBTQ adult leaders. In 2019, they changed membership to include girls. Change is happening, and it is happening because of the demands of the organizations members. The closest troop near us has lost well over half its membership because people do not find it welcoming, so it’ll likely close. Our troop? We’ve grown over 4 times our original size. Do I think that there will be even more changes in ten years? Yes, because people are demanding it.

This is how change happens. It doesn’t happen simply by judging from the outside. 
[/quote]

The decisions to allow girls followed the exodus of parents from scouting, caused by the child abuse coverup. Which means yes— parents do have influence in the organization if they’re willing to leave it.

The decision to stop banning LGBT staff was caused by externals as well, since the people already in scouts were clearly tolerating the homophobia.

I think you’re right that the only meaningful change BSA will see will be internal— if parents and scouts (particularly the older scouts) start questioning the treatment of the 82,000 boys who were abused and then continue to be victims of the BSA. I wouldn’t join an organization that behaves that way just to “change it from within” which is, ironically, how people justified working for Trump. But I have faith that some of the scouts will ask the pointed questions of their leadership— and their parents— going forward. Unfortunately I think it’s going to come after more children are abused.[/quote]

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