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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Kremlin is now saying that NATO planned the attack

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4049216/Russian-ambassador-s-assassination-Turkey-organised-NATO-secret-services-provocation-challenge-Moscow-claims-Kremlin-senator.html[/quote]
And really, why not? The US under Trump won't say anything different.  Trump would say "I don't know who did it, maybe it was NATO", even after intelligence briefings tell him who was actually behind it.[/quote]
Trump has a whole lotta power for a guy who isn't even in office for a month.[/quote]
DP. What does the above have to do with Trump having power?[/quote]

What's Obama going to do NOW?[/quote]

Why does Trump or Obama have to do anything. What am I missing. This happened in Turlkey to a Russian diplomat. [/quote]

Uh, because we are not isolationists?[/quote]

I wonder if we really investigated whether that guy Gulen was behind the coup or not. My gut tells me he knew but didn't really do anything to help/hinder it, and the coup planners failed on their own accord. If he were behind the coup, it's no skin off my back  to deport him, provided we get the right under the table concessions from Erdogan and/or Putin. I mean, it is helpful in negotiating to know whether Gulen really was involved in the coup. What we do with those facts and whether we admit them or not is another issue. Now if it turns out we were helping Gulen bring down Erdogan, then shame on us for getting such a terrible return on our investment. This wasn't really a case where the ill-will we gain from being behind Coup #129,123 more than cancels out the improvement in behavior from Turkey. If Putin and any number of unpleasant leaders around the world start thinking "they're next," their attitudes towards the US will continue to decline.

As for a response, I guess it's not really in our interest to see a war between Russia and Turkey, even if we were somehow able to weasel our way out of Article V (I understand if it's shown Turkey provoked the war, we are not under treaty obligation.)

With that said, Putin's got several children to take care of -- Transnistria, Ossetia, Abkhazia, Crimea, etc. an actual shooting or bombing war in Turkey would be expensive and more importantly, not be swiftly won the way his wars have been won so far. He's got some sort of built-in incentive to not escalate this TOO much. The risk-return on "protecting ethnic Russians" in the Baltics would be much higher as the Baltics have few natural defenses, only Estonia bothers to spend 2%/GDP on defense, and Russian tanks would be in Riga before NATO forces in Germany could get their act together. I'm sure there's all sorts of Forest Brothers plans developed in Vilnius, Riga, and Tallinn that would get put into effect if Russia were to actually invade for reals -- they are relatives of Israel's Operation Samson albeit with less nukes.

On the other hand, an attack on the Baltics would be much more strongly condemned, and I suspect nearly all of his lingering sympathy in the West would evaporate.

If Putin or Erdogan just wanna circle around and mutter threats at each other like two high school kids who want to look tough but not really fight each other ... well, I guess we're obligated under some secret treaty to make loud tsk-tsk noises. [/quote]

I wonder about the effectiveness of modern day coups.  Once upon a time there was a clear understanding of who held power. Topple that person and that problem is over.  Now each "leader" has so many entanglements, that if you topple him, the other heads of the hydra continue to cause different problems [/quote]

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