Reply to Ralph Northam yearbook page shows men in blackface and KKK robe

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[quote=jsteele][quote=Anonymous][quote=jsteele][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=jsteele][quote=Anonymous]Jeff: “I’ll leave to the actual black people to share their feelings on this.”
Also Jeff: *is not black* *proceeds to post paragraph after paragraph about his feelings on this.*

Whitesplaining AND mansplaining all in one! Bravo! [/quote]

That was in reference to the white poster trying to speak on behalf of black people. Can you please tell me why a white person cannot discuss history? I'm not discussing people's feelings. Anyone, black, white, or otherwise, has the right to feel anyway they want to feel. What I'm discussing is colonial history. Are you telling me that a white male can't talk about such a thing.

Just for the record, I now firmly believe that anyone accusing anyone of "splaining" anything is an idiot. It's a farce when a white person -- probably two white people for that matter -- accuse me of "Whitesplaining". What the hell do you think you are doing?
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No one is saying you cannot discuss things like slavery and history. Just that in this case, when you are white and it was not YOUR race that was kidnapped, raped, shipped across the ocean, etc. that *listening* to the people who were actually affected by this is probably the better approach. Just sit down and listen. Learn from their thoughts, opinions, and ideas. [/quote]

Exactly. And btw, I don't care for the use of "splaining" either. I guess you could say I appropriated it from another group, lol. That was my first and last time using it.

[b]But your take on this issue, Jeff, sounds more like what I'd expect to hear from some old, white, Republican geezer.[/b][/quote]

That's what it sounds like because old, white, Republican geezers have used such language to downplay slavery. In those cases, it is historically inaccurate. However, in the specific case to which Northam was referring -- the Africans brought to Virginia in 1621 -- it is close to accurate, if not completely accurate, to refer to them as indentured servants.

Think of it this way. Two pirate ships capture a Dutch ship. They are hoping to find something valuable aboard, but what they find is human cargo -- we can call them slaves. In a perfect world, those individuals would be returned to their homeland, but the world is not perfect. Instead, one of the ships delivers them to Virginia. At this point, you could say that the pirates "sold" the Africans to colonists. Or, you could say that the colonists paid the costs of the pirates delivering the Africans to Virginia rather than abandoning them at sea. Either way, the Africans didn't become property. They were beholden to the those who paid the pirates, but were eventually able to earn their freedom. Most of us don't know this history, but tend to think as all Africans brought to the colonies as slaves. People of any color are welcome to their perspective that being forced to work to repay a colonist who paid a pirate who captured a ship you were on as a result of your being placed into slavery is slavery and not indentured servitude. Fine. But that type of slavery from which the Africans were able to win freedom and become property owners has little in common with what came later -- what we now think of as "slavery".
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There you go again! Talking over people of color. Giving  them these long winded explanations of why they’re wrong, that they’re being too sensitive, that they’re being too sensitive, trying to explain THEIR OWN HISTORY to them in a condescending way...it’s so, so disgustingly racist. [/quote]

I'm doing no such thing. You should calm down a bit and read more carefully. I haven't done any of the things you suggest. Where did I even use the word "sensitive", let alone accuse someone of being too sensitive? To the contrary, I said that others are welcome to a different perspective.

As far as I know, none of the posters who are getting upset about this have identified themselves as a person of color. At least one of those accusing me of "whitesplaining" was white themselves. If you want to offer the black perspective, might you do us the favor of clarifying whether you are actually black or not?

Is there any reason that you can't engage in back and forth discussion about history? Earlier you claimed that I should listen, yet you have nothing to say beyond name-calling. Can you provide your version of the history of those Africans who arrived in 1619?
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