Reply to If Jesus wasn’t a real historical figure, where did Christian theology come from?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Muhammad’s historicity is similarly debated. The Quran was written down 20 years after his death (echos of Paul). The Hadith were written 2-3 hundred years later. There’s no record the Muslim conquerors across North Africa mentioned Mohammed or Islam, nor did their conquered subjects, until about 80 years in.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Muhammad

https://compassthroughchaos.medium.com/muhammad-is-as-real-as-the-lord-of-the-rings-5322b0bbe1[/quote]

Yup. Just like Jesus, he “most likely” but we don’t have definitive evidence. [/quote]

[b]Who decides if evidence is "definitive?"  
[/b]
There is evidence (fact).  Whether anyone is persuaded by that evidence is up to each individual. [/quote]

We all have to decide for ourselves. For me "definitive" means direct evidence, and there isn't any.  But OTH, circumstantial evidence, of which there is a lot, can be very persuasive. [/quote]

What would constitute "direct evidence?"  Perhaps [b]if an eye witness wrote down their account [/b]in a book, and we have that book?  Like, the Bible?  [/quote]

Were any the “eye witnesses” literate? [/quote]

People who can’t read or write- their eyes still work.

Despite this schooling system, many children did not learn to read and write. It has been estimated that at least 90 percent of the Jewish population of Roman Palestine in the first centuries CE could merely write their own name or not write and read at all, or that the literacy rate was about 3 percent.[/quote]

So it seems unlikely that the “eye witnesses” write down their accounts. 
[/quote]

The fact that Christianity spread so quickly by oral tradition—Paul’s original job just 20 years after the cruxifixion was to stamp it out—speaks to how prevalent and compelling this oral tradition was.

Paul learned about Jesus from his own and Jesus’ contemporaries.

As the original generation started to die, and after the destruction of the temple in 70AD, there was more impetus to put everything in writing. Mark probably predates that though. In fact, there’s a lot of disagreement—some scholars think Matthew was written only 10 years after Jesus’ death, others say much longer.

[/quote]
Oral history was the common way of communicating at the time, because even if a select few could read and write, the masses mostly couldn't. Most mythologies were orally transmitted. Greek mythology, for example, is still known today, but we don't consider it divine anymore. Something being a compelling oral narrative doesn't make it True (with a capital T).[/quote]

Just curious. How many times are you going to repeat essentially the same posts about mythologies?

Clearly the people who were talking about Jesus in the first decades after his death saw and heard something they thought was special. Or someone they trusted talked about something they saw that was special. We’re not talking about the centuries-long development of Greek mythology here. [/quote]

“Christianity” evolved over centuries. There are no primary sources. 
[/quote]

There are testimonies from within a few decades of Christ’s life. The folks in 300AD who made decisions about various things absolutely thought they were basing it on the “gospel truth.” But you already knew that. [/quote]

Right. It evolved over centuries. 
[/quote]

An eyewitness of Jesus wrote a biography of Jesus in a book that we have today.

If you regardless doubt he existed, and if you doubt the genuineness of the book, well, in Jesus's words, "they have eyes but cannot see."

Personally, I am descended from the first group to be called Christians in Antioch, Syria.  Acts 11:26 - "it was in Antioch that the disciples were first called Christians."  We still exist today - Syrian Antiochian Christians.  It's not imaginary or make believe.  We have an Antiochian church locally here too.[/quote]

The eyewitness did not write the biography. Someone later in history wrote it.

I believe that you and your church exist. I believe there are Christians in Antioch. There is evidence for that. 
[/quote]

John wrote the Book of John.  An eyewitness account.

So we have a written account by an eyewitness.  But, now people want to debate writing the book really happened.  👍 [/quote]

I took a whole course in college about how John didn't write John. You should have picked one of the Synoptic gospels for your example.

[url]https://www.britannica.com/topic/Gospel-According-to-John[/url][/quote]

One time, in college, my professor said the Book of John was faked.

Ok.  But regardless, it's a biography by an eyewitness.  You just believe it's fake.  And your professor.  [/quote]

And Encyclopedia Britannica. LOL.[/quote]

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