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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I'm just joining now...

But why haven't the Biden/Harris Admin reached out more to the Gold Star Families of the Afghanistan withdrawal? Yes, I'm sure they would face ire--but it could be private meetings. The anguish of these families ... it seems a simple thing to 'do the right thing' and acknowledge and offer comfort, even if rejected.  I don't really understand why they are just ignoring them.[/quote]

Highly skeptical that you're "just joining now" (in fact, I think some of you are trolls and are sockpuppeting). I have a question for YOU: what is so special about this group of Gold Star families? Why should they be singled out for attention and not any other group of families of war dead? [/quote]

OK, well, I guess you can ask Jeff to verify I haven't posted on this thread before if it matters to you.

I am not sure why you are answering a question with a question. My husband has served in combat under multiple administrations, and if he had been killed in combat, God forbid, I don't know if I would have been receptive to outreach from the CIC at the time - but I would certainly prefer it be proffered than not proffered. It is impossible to predict how families will react, which is why notification is such a tremendous duty, but it is the right thing to do to offer full ceremony, ritual and regard to Gold Star families.  If it is rebuffed, it's rebuffed-but it seems a simple thing to do. I am wondering why it hasn't been done? It certainly is causing further division and pain.[/quote]

I'm the PP you are responding to. I answered a question with a question because I STILL don't understand what is so special about this specific group of Gold Star families--given the enormity of loss represented at ANC. But I will try to answer your questions on the assumption that they are sincere. You asked: "[b]But why haven't the Biden/Harris Admin reached out more to the Gold Star Families of the Afghanistan withdrawal[/b]? Yes, I'm sure they would face ire--but it could be private meetings. The anguish of these families ... it seems a simple thing to 'do the right thing' and acknowledge and offer comfort, even if rejected. I don't really understand why they are just ignoring them."

I can't speak for the Biden administration, but I'm assuming they're not reaching out to the families because it would be a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation. Since the incident occurred, it has become highly politicized and is a frequent line of attack against the Biden administration.  Some of the relatives were openly hostile to Biden and criticized him publicly 3 years ago after Biden met with the families at Dover when the caskets were brought back. A subset of the families spoke at the recent RNC and, working with the Trump Campaign, have released a statement and videos which criticize Biden and Harris. The relatives are not looking for "comfort" from the Biden administration as you suggest. Some of them hold Biden personally culpable for their loved ones' deaths. You can be sure that if Biden met with them, even if privately, he would not be graciously received and every word of the interaction would be used against him. They've already made up their minds about what happened and who's at fault and there's nothing Biden or Harris can do or say to change that. Finally, Biden/Harris are not "just ignoring them"--the WH has said that B/H were not invited (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-harris-werent-invited-arlington-abbey-gate-trump-rcna169154).

[/quote]

Biden did meet with them though. Not all the families but I’m sure all would have been invited. They were unhappy with the meeting (they accused him of looking at his watch). But it most certainly happened. [/quote]

Yes, he met with those of them that would meet with him (some refused) at Dover three years ago when the caskets came in and he was, as you say, criticized for looking at his watch, among other things. The issue is that some PPs are saying that Biden should have met with the families again in 2024, on the 3rd year anniversary. [/quote]

I think the families' "issue" (besides their fallen children) is the sense that this administration has brushed their children's deaths under a rug. When they say the administration needs to "say their names" it is similar to BLM or any other anguished cry that a person in a position of political authority acknowledge a situation or events.  Equally obvious is that the Biden (and now future Harris administration) would like as little attention paid to the withdrawal and Abbey Gate as possible. Let's talk about what we are really talking about, on both sides of this 'ceremonial observance' controversy.[/quote]

But Biden does “say their names” and is very caring of our troops. This has been evident for decades.

This is not a “both sides” issue.

Trump, as usual, took our country to a new low by breaking decorum and politicizing ANC. He’s a psychopath and doesn’t care about anyone but himself. [/quote]

We are talking about this specific incident, a massacre during the withdrawal from Afghanistan. There is disagreement about how his administration has responded to critique of that, and to the families of the fallen during that incident. Not his attitude overall to the military. [/quote]

And you don't think that some of the families who are in the tank for Trump, had it in for Biden from the outset and have been fomenting that "disagreement" for almost 3 years now?[/quote]

Like, from before their kids died? You think they have just seized their kids death as an opportunity to 'take on Biden'. Like, a silver lining?  Weird. No, I think they hated the sloppy withdrawal, blame Biden as Commander in Chief for their children's death when they were literally preparing a homecoming, and want to call attention to his mishandling of the withdrawal at every opportunity. I think any parent would behave this way. You may not agree that Biden is at fault, but since they feel that way, their behavior is very understandable.  [/quote]

When troops are drawn down to a scant 2,500 and 5,000 taliban fighters were released by Trump, how exactly is there going to be a clean withdrawal? Please name a similar instance where this "clean withdrawal" has occurred.[/quote]

2,500 is enough to provide security for a measured withdrawal. [b]if it wasn't thought to be enough, Biden could have put more troops in.[/b] My husband withdrew from Afghanistan quite a few times, and was back what felt like the next week because the plan changed. The military is flexible like that. This withdrawal was botched and both American servicemembers and Afghans died in the chaos. The buck stops with the administration overseeing it[/quote]

Do you actually read the information out there?  No, Biden could not have put more troops in.  Trump agreed with withdraw troops and he explicitly agreed that the US would not deploy any more troops to Afghanistan.  So, he forced the Afghan government to release 5K Taliban soldiers.  Then he cut our forces down to  2500.  So, he deliberately outnumbered the US troops.  He had them release twice as many soldiers as he left on the ground.  And that didn't include any Taliban that were not imprisoned.  So the troops left were outnumbered at least 4:1.  Then Trump agreed to a deadline of May 1, which was 3.5 months after Biden was inaugurated.  And he left no plans for the withdrawal.  So, Biden had 3.5 months to establish and implement a planned withdrawal.  Trump had 11 months from February 2020 until January 2021 and he deliberately made no plans for the withdrawal, throwing an entirely chaotic and weak situation for Biden to pick up in the last week of January.  He also announced the withdrawal so that the Taliban could go from city to city and plan to assault any remaining American civilians or US troops left in each city. [b] But he made no plans to withdraw civilians,[/b] so military personnel had to stay in each city to round up civilians and get them out before the deadline.  While still securing each city and guarding their route to safety.

As for the military changing, it is easier to change plans when there are 13K forces in the region.  It is much harder to change plans when every soldier that is withdrawn cannot return by international agreement.  So, once a plan is made, it could not be walked back or changed, regardless of how flexible the staff was.  That was what Trump promised.[/quote]

All of this, but to the bolded...Trump and Pompeo closed the "Special Visa Office" at the State Department that would have processed the Visa applciations for our allies on the ground. Biden had to re-open and staff that office as one of the first priorities after 1/20/21, but it wasn't enough to get the job done. Trump totally sandbagged our troops and our allies on the ground and yet, it's all Biden's fault, right?[/quote]

My husband (pretty high up) was part of two "agreed" drawdowns and withdrawals from that benighted land. He officially withdrew, we all cheered, they dismantled a bunch of stuff, and then lo and behold the situation changed and back he went and then officially withdrew again. Please do not give me the line that "agreements' can't change. I am literally holding my side laughing.[/quote]

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