Reply to How LONG Until Immigrants Get Welfare?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Funny, but I'm noticing a parallel between this thread and the one on whether low-income people should pay $10 to see a doctor (given that they have been provided free health insurance via great sacrifices from the middle class, who now are struggling themselves to afford medical insurance).

Liberals are arguing that the group that is worse off should be provided for, even if it makes the "better off" group worse off themselves. For example, we need to give illegals a oath to citizenship even though the majority will depend on govt assistance when we can't even afford to care for our veterans....and we should give lower-income all medical care completely free even though it has cost many middle-income people the ability to afford their own health insurance.

And before the bleeding hearts jump on me, I am NOT equating low-income with illegals. It is the philosophy behind it - that the underdog should be elevated even though it harms the group just above them and effectively lowers their standard of living. This, people, is socialism. That the lower get raised and the middle gets lowered until they are both "equal."

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Not a liberal but want to point out a critical differentiation. Any time you take money from one group to subsidize the activity of the other group, you make the money-taken-from group worse off. Clearly, however, we agree that those who are better off should shoulder a larger amount of the burden, and we need to take care of those who are truly not able to care for themselves - it's what makes us a civilized society. So the taking of money in and of it self is not a problem.

The problem is the liberal belief that people should be "equal" in not just equal treatment and protection under the law, but equal in terms of outcome and quality of life. The world is not equal, so it's irrational to forcibly march towards this equality. Socialism and communism both tried to achieve this level of equality and both have failed spectacularly.

We can and should provide basic healthcare to those who are not able to help themselves. But we should not be providing "gold" level healthcare free, while middle class families struggle to afford "silver" level plans. [/quote]
Yes! I'm the PP, and you've articulated the problem better than I. Liberals don't understand it, but poor people are now provided the best of the best - fully paid gold plans - while much of the moderate class ($50s, $60s, thereabouts) are sacrificing to be able to afford the premiums on even a silver - and in many cases have been forced to go down to a bronze and hope they stay healthy. (Hence, the appearance of the "underinsured middle class".) Doctors are reporting that their patient load has reversed so that they are comprised primarily of "free" lower income, while the middle skip needed exams and treatments due to Their inability to afford it.

I, for example, have been forced to curtail twice weekly treatments to once a week, and "do my best" for myself on the skipped day, likely at some cost to my health. The poor, for whom all is paid, still get the twice weekly treatments THEY need (courtesy of my astronomical premiums.)

So what we have, as you pointed out, is BEYOND the idealistic and unfair Democratic socialist dream where everyone is equal...no matter how hard they work, how motivated they are, and yes....even how capable and smart they might be. We now have provided so much to the lower income (in terms of medical  at least) that the poor have better health coverage than the middle - especially hard to swallow when the middle is asked to pay for the poor's better coverage. [/quote]

The best of the best?  Give me a break.  I have great insurance and quite frankly, the best of the best doesn't take any insurance.  Do poor people get the best housing?  Food?  Lifestyle?  No, they don't.  It's very expensive to be poor in the country.  Why are you targeting people and not companies that employ them?[/quote]

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