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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Dramatic much? Catastrophic decline? Hardly.[/quote]

The decline does look bad, PP.

The percentage of kids scoring Advanced in reading and math at Latin MS increased dramatically in 2010, but has been on the decline ever since.

What caused the large increase in 2010?  Was there a surge in middle class enrollment for the 2009-2010 school year?  Is that the year Deal stopped taking kids zoned for Hardy?  Is there another reason?

[b]Anyway, since 2010, the number of kids scoring Advanced at Latin MS has been on the decline.  This decline is not due to the departure of bright kids, though, at least not entirely.  The median growth percentile has also been on the decline at Latin MS since 2010:[/b]

Year -- Reading MGP -- Math MGP
2011 -- 63.5% -- 52.2%
2012 -- 56.9% -- 44.8%
2013 -- 46.0% -- 46.0%
2014 -- 42.8% -- 39.8%

The MGP data point to a multi-year trend of Advanced kids falling behind at Latin MS.  Why is this happening?[/quote]

What this chart (which compare the kids in the city who all had the same score the prior year, and the actual scores show show) is that for some reason the advanced kids at Washington Latin become less and less likely to score advanced the longer they stay there.

The city average is 50, so 39.8 is pretty bad.

The math issue (preparedness for high school) is only worth 2 points.

The progress over time is worth 40/100 points to the Charter Board, and Deal makes this progress every year.

In 2014, 65% of Deal's white kids scored higher in math than kids in other schools that had their same scores the year before.  If they were a charter, they would be rocking it.

This is not "armchair analysis of statistics" and it is not foolish to look at - 
this is the website:

http://focusdc.org/charter-facts -

I suggest everyone look at the school they are at, and Washington Latin, and any other MS they are interested in - charter or public, through this website because it honestly is the best one I have found - it goes all the way back to when the school started, at least for Latin, and you can break it down by any sub group.

Something definitely happened everywhere in 2010, there was a huge spike in DC CAS scores even at Deal but the graph kind of tells it all with Washington Latin MS.  Just compare it to the Deal graph, or the Latin HS graph.

Also if you click on any line, it will give you the raw numbers
lest we forget what we are actually talking about, here is a snapshot of Washington Latin

Here is what you get for 2007, 2010, and 2014

2007 English - all test takers 171 
Proficient and Advanced 77% 
Proficient 54% 
Advanced 23%

2010 English - all test takers 299 
Proficient and Advanced 83% 
Proficient 44% 
Advanced 39%

2014 English - all test takers 362 
Proficient and Advanced 79% 
Proficient 57 % 
Advanced 22%

so they basically went back to 2007

2007 Math - all test takers 171 
Proficient and Advanced 73% 
Proficient 48% 
Advanced 25%

2010 Math - all test takers 299 
Proficient and Advanced 81 % 
Proficient 44% 
Advanced 39%

2014 Math - all test takers 362 
Proficient and Advanced 77% 
Proficient 46% 
Advanced 31%

that is not so bad

20O7 English - white students 
Proficient and Advanced 94% 
Proficient 54% (34/171) 
Advanced 40% (26/171)

2010 English - white students 
Proficient and Advanced 93% 
Proficient 32% (39/299) 
Advanced 61% (75/299)

2014 English - white students 
Proficient and Advanced 96% 
Proficient 60% (90/151) 
Advanced 36% (55/151)

advanced here is lower than 2007

2007 Math - white students 
Proficient and Advanced 97% 
Proficient 51% (32/64) 
Advanced 46% (30/64)

2010 Math - white students 
Proficient and Advanced 98% 
Proficient 35% (43/122) 
Advanced 63% (77/122)

again - in 2010 they rocked the CAS - so did Deal, so did a lot of schools.  Deal held on to its gains, Latin lost them.

2014 Math - white students 
Proficient and Advanced 91% 
Proficient 36% (55/151) 
Advanced 54% (82/151)

The high school has never had the DC CAS scores that the MS at Washington Latin had, and given that the MS scores are dropping, that may not change now in the high school as much as everyone thinks.  What the HS has done is consistently improve to the point where all the kids are willing to stay, but I wonder whether the kids are now coming into the HS having been shortchanged somehow...

I don't think I have seen an adequate explanation on this thread yet for why this has happened

saying "we have a long wait list so it doesn't matter" seems kind of wrong

the numbers show a school in decline, which is not what the kids feel at all - I get that there is a huge disconnect
there will never be another DC CAS, so we don't know if the numbers would have continued to fall, but this is not about the bottom part of the class - I have been focusing on the advanced kids, and why their scores are declining the longer they stay at Washington Latin MS because that is the exact opposite of what should be happening, and the opposite of what is happening at all the Tier I schools - more kids are becoming advanced, not fewer.

Latin is a good enough school so they should not have to teach to the test, Deal and Basis don't either.
Those are the top 3 scorers on the DC CAS the last two years.
This is not about raw scores, it is about the direction, and I am baffled.
Go ahead, tell me just not to apply, to save the spot for someone who really wants it.

I want one of my kids to get into Latin, but I also want to understand why this has happened and what it means.

And why, when it must have been obvious to the school that they were slipping and risking losing their Tier I status because two years ago they only made Tier I by .2 or .3, they either deliberately decided to do nothing or could do nothing to keep from falling from 60.2 to 59.  I am pretty sure it matters to them.

The farther back you go the more dramatic the drop is -
in 4 years they dropped from 79% to 59%

I think the kids who are coming in (or at least the pool) are better prepared, more willing to learn, than the ones 4 years ago - the FARMS rate has dropped, everything except these scores is fantastic.  But the MGP measures the kids against kids like them who had their DC CAS scores the previous year, and the raw scores both point to the fact that advanced kids are coming to Latin and losing their ability to score advanced.  And that proficient kids are not becoming advanced.  This is what worries me.  Profoundly.

We are never going to have another DC CAS, but as you can see from both the MGP and the scores, 
there is something going on, and it is not the unfairness of the measurements, and it is not nothing.

So for those of us who don't have kids there
is there not enough differentiation
is there any tracking
are there any separate/more advanced classes for some of the kids in the MS?

For the parents who are not blowing this off, what do you think the explanation is?
And will you please ask the school for us?
It is kind of harder for us to ask because 
a) we probably will never get in and
b) if we do, we will always be the ones who asked

but this is not typical for any charter school - this going in the wrong direction - and certainly not one that is so well thought of, hard to get into, and is hardly at this point an experiment having been around for so many years.

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