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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

Okay, so you dragged me back to the Arabic here.  I skimmed the sura pretty quickly, but I did not see a reference to "believers" and would not have considered it definitive if I had as it would have to use the masculine plural unless it was directed just at women (not your contention).

I did, however, find a definite clue that this sura is directed at both men and women in verse 42:11.  In this verse it says that God has made mates for you.  The word for mates uses the masculine plural.  [b]If it was directed solely to men it would have used the feminine plural. [/b] Use of the masculine plural shows the verse, and by extension the sura, is directed at both men and women.

Going back to 42:38, this is one of several verses that enunciate good behavior like avoiding major sins.  It does not set forth requirements--it is more like a list of best practices of the faithful.  One of these is having "their affair(s) [determined by] consultation".  Consultation among members of a tribe is an ancient practice pre-dating islam, that has continued on in tribes today.  As practiced today it almost always excludes women, although they can have indirect influence.  I am not sure what the practice was at the time as some women were clearly successful business women and some went into war.  I also am not sure--without a lot more work--what "affair" connoted at the time.

I would not equate tribal consultation, or consultation among the early Islamic community, as an electoral process.  Rather it is a consensus process.  I would consider it a pretty democratic process--people get their say, but the most influential have the sway, perhaps inspired by views of others.  Tribal leaders are determined by consensus views of who is best to lead (even today) and this process was followed for successors of Muhammed.  The process, however, did lead some to feel quite bitter about the choices and eventually led to the Shia split.[/quote]

I thought about an aside on this one, but didn't do it.  If God were just addressing men in this verse, he would have used the feminine plural for mates.  This of course supposes one views only women as suitable mates for men! It is actually clear that this it about mates in the sense of people with whom one can have progeny as there are references a few verses later to having male and female children.  Thus, we can safely rule out that the verse contemplates males mating with males on linguistic grounds without having to go down the garden path of the role of homosexuality in early Islam.

So God says I made mates (masculine plural) for you (masculine plural).  If the "you" were meant just for men, mates would have to be feminine plural because men can produce children only with female mates.  Arabic does not have any sense of a neuter and when speaking of people gender is always distinguished except when men and women collectively are involved in which case the masculine plural is used.  Accordingly, there can be only one reason "mates" is masculine plural.  It is because the masculine plural of you is used to refer to both men and women.  Accordingly the masculine plural of mates is used to refer to male and female mates.

Hope I haven't made it more confusing!

Different PP here (the one with the son who speaks French, Spanish and Arabic). Thanks so much for this. I'm curious why the feminine plural would be used in this case?[/quote][/quote]

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