Reply to Did schools used to have behavioral problems like they do now?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Parents don’t parent. DD 16 is a lifeguard and came home yesterday talking about a gentle parent trying to negotiate with her kid for several minutes to get out of the pool during break. Even teen DD could see it was a snowflake approach. [/quote]

The kid whose parent has the wherewithal to be calm and patient in that situation instead of grabbing the kid by the arm and dragging him out of the pool, or screaming at him, is not the kid who is having the massive meltdown in class that gets the classroom evacuated. The gentle parented kid might have other issues if his parents don't figure out how to set limits, but the truth is that a parent willing to spend several minutes talking to their kid when they aren't doing what they've been told is demonstrating patience and emotional regulation, which is still better than screaming and yanking your kid around in terms of teaching them how to behave.

I know making fun of parents doing "gentle parenting" is a favorite pastime around these parts, but that's not what is leading to kids who throw chairs or scream at people in middle school. [/quote]

A parent who negotiates like that is doing a disservice to their future adult child.

A boss isn't going to negotiate with you. A cop isn't going to negotiate with you.
A romantic partner isn't going to negotiate with you.

No one is advocating yanking a child around.

But that isn't the first time that child has ignored their parent. If there were consequences like "Johnny, it is pool break time. If you don't get out like everyone else the consequence is we will leave this pool" I suspect Johnny would have gotten out of the pool the first time.

As it is I bet that child was bribed out of the pool with a promise of snacks which isn't very different from how principals handle things nowadays.[/quote]

You missed the point. It's not that gentle parenting is great and effective. It's that it doesn't produce kids who are violent and disruptive in class. And at least it does demonstrate to the kid what it looks like for an adult to get frustrated but not resort to yelling or violence. It might not be perfect parenting, but it's not the sort of parenting that leads to super disruptive kids and major behavioral problems in school.

Saying "it's the parenting" in a thread about serious behavioral issues in schools, and then describing a parent negotiating with their toddler to get out of the pool is silly. Now if you had described parents leaving their young kids at home alone regularly, spending most of their time high or drunk, or screaming at and hitting their kids, then yes, spot on. That is the kind of parenting that leads to kids with serious behavioral issues in school.

You needs some perspective.[/quote]

I respectfully disagree with you. For one—you’re essentially saying that the only other option besides the negotiating gentle parent is screaming and violently ripping your kid from the situation. When my kids were young we gave them warning when we had to leave a place, set a timer and respected the timer. If they decided they didn’t want to go I wouldn’t beg, cajole, offer treats if they listened. I would count to 5 and if they weren’t complying I would scoop them up and carry them to the car. I wasn’t screening, I wasn’t violent. I sometimes had to wait or them to calm down to put them in the car seat. But the message was that parents are in charge of these decisions, the kids aren’t. And yes I read a ton of parenting books and articles and it honestly was a lot harder for me to do it this way than to constantly avoid conflict by letting my kids do what they wanted to the detriment of our family’s needs.

Gentle parenting these days isn’t just being calm, it’s letting the kids run the show. It’s asking them if they’re ready for the next thing instead of telling them. It’s rewarding negotiations with bribes (and therefore making sure it will happen again and again).

And you better believe it’s showing up in the classrooms. If your kid doesn’t ever or rarely gets told no at home, how do you think they’ll handle it hearing from their classroom teacher, specials teachers, playground monitors, administrators, bus drivers.

School behavior problems are up and it’s not due to abuse. It’s due to parents who are neglectful—neglecting to teach their kid to be part of society and expecting everyone to bend to them instead.

And it’s not working—kids are more anxious and depressed than ever. [/quote]

No. I'm not "essentially" saying the only other option is screaming and hitting your kids. I'm saying that the people who scream and hit, or totally ignore their kids, produce the violent kids who are huge behavioral issues in school. They always have and they always will.

If this was a thread about kids being self sufficient in college or communications and resilience among 20 somethings, that would be different. It's not. Stop acting line gentle parenting is the source of all ills. It just undermines whatever argument you were trying to make and makes you sound nuts. You think parents who negotiate their kids out of the pool are raising the next generation of chair throwers? No. That kid gets three square meals a day (probably organic and nutritionally balanced too), plenty of sleep, has multiple loving caretakers, etc. He might have other issues because his mom doesn't just say "no you have to get out of the pool or we will leave the pool," but he's not causing big disruptions in class. He just isn't.[/quote]

You are getting very hung up on the gentle parenting term. Teachers are explaining here that kids who do not respect adults and need to be negotiated with are, in fact, disruptive and behavior issues in their classrooms. Are they chair throwers? No, but kids who refuse to follow directions and need to be negotiated with can be incredibly disruptive to classroom dynamics, not to mention require additional personnel to manage. [b]If Larla won’t leave one location for another[/b], an adult needs to stay with her while the rest of the class goes about their day, and, as a million PPs have said, that kind of response then incentivizes the behavior to continue.[/quote]

DP my kid is like this at home. Not at school (unless they just aren't telling us). DC is autistic.

No amount of consequences can change the fact that DC is autistic. We have tried the authoritative parenting approach with DC and it doesn't work. What does work is explaining when and why we have to move on from something. So I guess that is gentle parenting? Certainly the fact that DC is by all accounts well behaved at school is not the result of us focusing on setting boundaries. That likely has more to do with DC's personality.[/quote]

There’s a huge difference between a child with autism and a neurotypical child who knows refusing to follow directions means they don’t have to follow directions. I am talking about the latter. I teach a specialized area and every year I encounter multiple students who have no identified disabilities (and aren’t being considered for child study, because I follow up with teachers) who refuse to follow directions like “complete this activity” or “close your Chromebook because we are moving to something else”—why? Because it works at home.[/quote]

Lots of neurodivergence issues go undiagnosed, or there may be a diagnosis but no IEP in place in which case you may have no idea. My kid has slow processing speed and is on the autism spectrum but because she tests well above grade level and has no social challenges, no IEP.

Also the examples you give are both indicative of neurodivergence. A kid who struggles with a direction like "complete the activity" may simply be having trouble completing the activity! They may not understand the instructions or be struggling with a skill. A skilled teacher will recognize this and alter instructions to support that kid. For instance if the class needs to wrap up a worksheet activity so they can transition to a specials class, the teacher can say "just finish whatever question you are currently on, it's okay if you are not done. then put these in your folder and you can return to it later if there is time." And then like magic the kid who was fighting you will follow instructions because you've given them instructions they are actually able to follow.

Regarding the Chromebook, this is a problem schools created for themselves via overuse of screens. Everyone who works with young kids knows that many kids really struggle with transitions off screens, especially individual devices. The screen is designed to capture their attention and for kids with ADHD or other ND, the screen is often the only time during the day when their mind gets quiet or feels relaxed. Putting kids on Chromebooks for 15 or 30 minute activities and then asking them to transition rapidly to other activities is just asking for trouble and most parents of ND would simply never make that mistake. You might assume my kid who struggles with getting off the Chromebook is just allowed to watch screens indefinitely at home but you'd be wrong. In reality she gets almost no screen time at all at home and any screen time happens AFTER other necessary activities to avoid this specific problem. It's not my fault you haven't figured this out yet.[/quote]

Wow sounds like you are one that got a serious diagnosis to explain bad parenting/poor behavior.[/quote]

Go ahead and think that.

I suspect that often the "teacher" posters on here are not actual, certified classroom teachers. I think some of you are either retired teachers who don't understand modern pedagogy, or substitutes, or both.

Because every elementary school teacher I know would agree completely with the above. Having good classroom management isn't just about being strict or not tolerating bad behavior. Its also about understanding how to communicate with kids and how to structure the day so good behavior is more likely. [/quote]

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