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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]The newborn and toddler years are really hard. And we live in a society with few family support policies[b] (daycare costs a lot, housing costs a lot, maternity leave is typically unpaid). [/b]

These are some reasons the birth rate is falling.

For me, parenthood has been wonderful and so worth it for the love and fulfillment. There have been a lot of hard days. But the joy and beauty outweigh them. [/quote]

Perhaps it could be because wages are higher here and housing costs lower (and homes generally larger), but [b]birth rates are falling across all western countries.[/b] Generous paid leave is inversely correlated with the birth rate.

My unpopular opinion is that government leave makes it worse. In most European countries, the paid leave is at a low wage (similar to unemployment here) and women are expected to take it. This means every woman who has a kid is expected to stay home for a long period of time to earn low wages from the government. Women still have to work, especially since wages are generally lower, but they are second class citizens at work since it’s assumed they are away for years having children.

Do I want to have another kid and instead of working earn $300 a week?  No thanks.

[/quote]

It's not just western countries. It's all developed/industrialized countries (except Israel).

I like the Nordic model for parental leave, which offers equal bonding time for fathers, but fathers have to take the leave separately from the mothers. It encourages dads to be primary caregivers early in their child's life. And it seems to be working based on research on time spent parenting by gender.[/quote]

And they also aren’t having enough kids. Not only do the women have to suffer, but now the men too. Having children means you’re kept from working.

The Norwegian model is especially suffocating. Long, required parental leaves. Most jobs are uninspiring due to the oil money. Very average salaries. Not outsourcing anything. [/quote]

Should someone cry for the men who are “forced” to take PAID parental leave?[/quote]

Not cry. You’re missing the point. Preventing men from going to work after having a baby isn’t a way to increase the birth rate. It does the opposite. [/quote]

No one wants babies with men who consider paid paternity leave to victimize them. [/quote]

But their birth rate demonstrates the opposite. It’s pretty easy to figure out why. It makes having a baby a large inconvenience.  While in theory it’s fair for men to take parental leave and they should, the long parental leaves had had unintended consequences. Women in these countries aren’t having enough babies. [/quote]

The long parental leaves are not the cause of the sinking birth rate. It's rising costs of living, greater focus on work, and increased delays in marriage/parenthood (due to all of the above).

There is nothing to indicate people in Nordic countries are having fewer kids because of the [b]"burden" of generous paternity leave. [/b]Those policies are consistently rated highly by people in these countries. It's just not enough to counteract broader economic and cultural trends.[/quote]

I think it’s a burden that is difficult to identify but it’s absolutely there.

Don’t discount what being out of the workforce for years does to a woman and consider that almost every woman in a Scandinavian country experiences this. [/quote]

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