Reply to Are women's standards higher now or is it just a myth?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Maybe having to excel in two spheres (work and home) is easier for women, on avg, and harder for men, on avg. Combine that with the fact that women, on average, don't withhold sex until marriage, you're going to see an increasing number of males not striving to be the best version of themselves.

If the past 50 years can be considered a success for women, someone else is going to be less successful. Social and political revolutions always have knock on effects.

Financial independence is nothing to sneer at, but there are always going to be trade offs and making men less essential could very well mean that their incentives to fulfill our ideals as husband's as father's have been cratered.[/quote]

Agree, there isn't much incentive today for males to strive to be the best version of themselves.[/quote]

And what is the best version of manhood? As far as I can tell from this thread it's to be a good feminist. Do we raise our daughters with that sort of reverence and respect for the capabilities of men? [b]My 8 year old son sees all of the girl power stuff my daughter has. There are no 'boy power' t-shirts and stickers.[/b][/quote]

Oh, FFS. You cannot be this dim. You sound like the people whining about the Black Entertainment Channel and its awards show. “Boo-hoo, where is the WHITE Entertainment Channel/Awards??? WAAAAH!!”

It’s every other damn channel, Chad.
[/quote]

Inventing a guy to get mad and getting mad at him [/quote]

[b]And believe it or not I'm a mom. Here's another example. My son's been in cub scouts. This year several girls joined the troop. They're lovely but the vibe has totally changed [/b]an d I dont see these boys sticking around for 4th grade. And don't tell me they should suck it up and make room for them. No one would ask that of my daughters girl scout troop bc a bunch of 8 yo boys running around would kill the vibe of those meetings too.

Or take the very structure of the typical school day. Is it better suited for the avg girl or the avg boy? What's it like to go into an environment day in and day out that feels stifling? This can apply to plenty of girls too but I'm taking about the population at large here. How does this play out at scale?

You all keep pointing to actual media channels and power players when what I'm saying is that the lives of young kids are structured in a way that views boys as defective girls. What kind of men will those boys become?[/quote]

The organization you signed your son up to participate in abused young boys so systematically over so many years that it was facing extinction if girls weren’t allowed to join.

So yeah. What kind of men **will** these boys become that their parents register them to participate in organizations that abuse children and then [b]blame the girl[/b]s for its flaws? Sounds like the kind of men who will have learned— sadly from their mothers— misogyny very early. [/quote]

The vibe has changed for the better at our troop although I will say the volunteering is tough for the girls. So many women volunteers needed that don't want to participate. The girls are way more put together and make eagle often 2 years before the boys.[/quote]

I’m glad it’s a positive experience for you,  but the person I was quoting is complaining that a few girls are “changing the vibe” for her son as though the girls— and not the systemic issues that led BSA to admit women— are the issue. If you always are told that everything you don’t like isn’t fair to you because of “the girls” then yeah, her son is going to grow up a self-pitying misogynist and it will be her fault. [/quote]

I'm the mom you're calling a misogynist. It's not girl-hating to note that boys and girls behave differently in co-ed vs single-sex groups. There's a lot about manhood that can only be learned through positive male role models. If you think women can come in and show them how it should be done or how it should be done better, no wonder the men know they can never meet women's standards.

For the record, I went to all-girls schools for both high school and college and it was a gift to be able to grow physically, emotionally and intellectually without the presence of the opposite sex. Boys deserve to have those spaces too but they've all been taken away b/c if girls aren't allowed, then it must be patriarchal.[/quote]

The families asked for it because they wanted a place for both of their kids so it was a homegrown request. In addition, they did so because they had so many lawsuits against them as a result of too many males going unchecked. Would you rather the program just die? Because that was it was about to do. You are comparing the old program against the new program but that wasn't the trajectory the scouts had to consider.

My son is learning how to work harder at scouts and is learning better communication skills with the women. He views women as equals and actually has more enthusiasm for the work. Both men and women celebrate eagle scouts so now there are more people who hold it in high regard. They haven't changed the badges at all. I think it's been a positive change to make it more of a family experience.

I think some people held scouts in high regard before. When I've talked to men my age though a lot of talk about it was that it was more for kids who weren't into sports. I don't think it had the macho look you think it did.[/quote]

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