Reply to Daydreaming of leaving the rat race/moving to Europe

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I sometimes daydream about moving to Europe, a mid sized city with tons of amenities but without the rat race. Where UMC people live off $7k per month for a family of 4 (or €5k for a couple being a lot of money), top public schools and [b]private schools are €500 per month[/b]. Most of all, I wish I could leave behind the competitiveness and one-upmanship. A simpler life.[/quote]

Where is this?

I don’t get the impression there is any more or less of a rat race there than here.  Depends on where you live but london friends seem just as stressed as NYC friends.

Your problems follow you.  You can just as easily live a lifestyle like that here.  [/quote]

Germany[/quote]

I’m German. Wages are lower in Germany than in the DC area. The cost to buy a house in a desirable region is much higher. You’d be more likely to rent a small apartment.

I would prefer to move back because it’s my home, but I think it’s hard for most Americans. [/quote]

Another actual German here.  We are buying a place where I'm from originally, a large city there.  We can do that because we made a lot of money here in the US and now are very well off by German standards.  We also speak German, obviously.  It's a very hard language to learn, and you have to learn it to emigrate unless you are a refugee.  Private schools aren't really a thing in Germany, your kids should be in public.  There is less of a rat race, but if you don't live in or around a large city, you will find it difficult to fit in.  Even as a native, I don't fit in to other regions of Germany particularly well.  Sort of like the NOrth/South thing here, but more than just accents.  [/quote]

“made a lot of money here” is the key!  [/quote]

That’s the thing.  The average white collar worker will be financially way better off in the United States than in most Western European countries.  If you’re a white collar worker in the US, you’ll make a lower salary, pay higher taxes and need to live in a much smaller home with less ability to outsource domestic chores.  Yes, there are exceptions but on average Europeans have less disposable income than Americans.

You do not need to move to a different continent to slow down. Do that here!  If you can’t do that here, I don’t see why you’d be able to do that in a European country.  Sure, you’ll have to downsize housing and only have one vehicle but you’ll likely book a ton of weekend trips around Europe and simply keep up with the Joneses in other ways.

Bottom line I think you’re being foolish and will deeply regret it if you take a massive paycut to move somewhere that’s more expensive to live.  [/quote]

I am someone who did "do that here" and I have a different take.

My DH and I made a conscious choice to live a simpler life outside the rat race for our mental health and family stability. We both work jobs that pay less than we could make elsewhere, but afford us more regular hours and are less stressful. Doing so means we choose to live in a smaller home, we cook at home and don't eat out as much, we don't outsource much (we clean our own house and only get babysitters for occasional date nights), and just generally live a simpler life.

The problem is that in the US, it is hard to find peers doing the same. We have many friends who say they admire our choices and wish they could do the same thing, but then there is always a reason why they can't (I'm not judging them, the reasons are money and worrying about retirement and college funds, I get it). We love our life but we feel out of step with American culture because we've done the "weird" thing and chosen to prioritize family life and mental health over income and achievement.

We do talk about moving to Western Europe at some point and have a savings fund set up for that possibility. We have friends in Germany, Austria, and the UK, and their lives are much more similar to ours. Where our US friends are making partner and buying vacation homes, our European friends are living in apartments and taking two week summer holidays with their kids to moderately priced destinations elsewhere in the EU or UK. It's much more our speed.[/quote]

Ok so I have quite a few European friends living in Western European countries.  I get the impression that they want just as much stuff and as many experiences as we do.  They simply don’t have the means and never will.  It’s kind of like how I will never afford a mega yacht so I don’t sit around thinking about it or even really want one.  I get that Europeans don’t have to worry as much about healthcare or college, but they seem just as stressed financially as we do.

I actually don’t get the impression that my friends in more LCOL or MCOL locations in the US are that concerned about healthcare or college savings.  I am only friends with white collar workers and they have their healthcare from their employer.  I think the lack of large flagship universities in the NE makes people a little crazier about admissions and costs.  In my home state the large state university is $9k a year in tuition. I get that you have to pay room and board too but my friends are already paying these expenses for their child at home.

My point is you can easily live a less stressful lifestyle really anywhere in the US outside of certain places like the upper east side of Manhattan.  If you are keeping up with the Jones here you’ll do in in Europe.  Instead of caring about X, you’ll care about Y.  [/quote]

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