Reply to What’s in the water in Chicagoland? (Univ. of Chicago & Northwestern)

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Dp- Don’t know about UChicago but alums do very well for themselves anecdotally. And Northwestern is flush with recent big name alums, especially in media and the arts. Not sure what your point is, to the unhappy and jealous PP above…[/quote]

Have you checked Chicago ROI?   It’s pretty low, around $60,000.  It’s about a few thousands more than UVA - but at a hefty price tag. No thanks. [/quote]
Measuring ROI solely by salary is stupid.[/quote]

Oh, is that what’s going on here? So PP is saying 60K is the average starting salary of a (recent?) UofC grad? Couldn’t figure out what it meant to express ROI as anything other than a percentage. Cracks me up how people who are obsessed with ROI don’t even know how to calculate it. And, of course, even if you believe ROI is the/an appropriate metric for choosing a college, then averages don’t matter — you care about what you’re actually investing and what kind of career DC is likely to embark upon. That’s before we even get to the point about salary not being the only return.[/quote]

A lot of what people think about Chicago is an illusion.  Their ROI is consistently not what an $80,000+ a year university is expected to produce.  There's a disconnect between their perception of themselves and their performance.  It's like a beautiful woman who achieved her looks through plastic surgery still making an ugly baby.  [/quote]

Great universities don’t achieve (or sustain) their greatness through ROI. Their goal isn’t to improve the earning power of undergrads. I understand that/why some parents care about ROI, especially now that college costs are mind-bogglingly expensive, but while that may be a legit way to think about how to allocate family assets among competing needs/desires, it’s just not what university education should be about. [/quote]

The only problem with your argument is you can get UChicago-level covid/remote education through Youtube videos - for free.  [/quote]

If you can’t tell the difference, then stick with YouTube videos! [/quote]

What do you think UChicago students were doing?  They stayed in their parents home, their own bedroom, watching UChicago YouTube video/zoom lectures - for some $80,000+ a year. [/quote]

That’s a story about COVID — not UChicago. I totally get why someone might delay college rather than start or continue remotely — especially STEM students who need lab-based instruction and access to technology you can’t provide at home. But even under COVID conditions, college isn’t the equivalent of watching YouTube videos. YouTube videos don’t provide you with a group of academic peers to collaborate with, discuss readings, etc. Nor do they provide profs and TAs who give you feedback on your work, answer questions, guide discussions, etc. YouTube videos don’t provide syllabi or assessments. And if you’re into the non-educational but still careerist elements of college, YouTube videos don’t credential you, they don’t rank and sort you based on performance, write letters of recommendation, or hook you up with employers/internships/an alumn network. Couresera tries to fill in some of these gaps and for some students/subjects it might be a much cheaper means to a more limited set of ends than education at an elite university.  If that’s all you want/need,go for it!

On the other hand, while I think college tuition is insane these day and the current system is unsustainable and unfair, I sure as hell don’t think that 4 years studying at a first-rate university has been a waste of money if the graduate fails to seek or obtain a lucrative job offer. Both in terms of what’s valuable at a social level (thoughtful and well-educated teachers, artists, activists, scientists, parents, voters) and wrt individual quality of life, I think a challenging education is one of the best investments we can make for students who are eager to engage. I just wish more of that investment was social so that this kind of education isn’t distributed based on parental wealth but on student interest and aptitude.
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