Reply to SAHMs of children entering school age

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]As long as we can afford it, I’m never going back.

It’s just easy. Yes, it’s afforded DH many more work opportunities and advancements, and more money. I’m OK with that. You have to be OK with that. I had a dream job I worked my ass off achieving, and some days I miss it, but never more than I love the this lifestyle.

Echoing others, logistically it just makes sense. We don’t ever worry about anything like sick days or snow days, summer vacations or... remote learning. Also, yes, you’ll be so surprised how the time gets away from you. Suddenly it’s 3:30 and you have to leave to get the kids from school in 15 minutes. I definitely keep busy and I’m never bored, but I also enjoy my own company. Introvert here! [/quote]

Ugh, women like this are setting society back by decades.[/quote]

No, women like this are not setting society back.  Women should get the choice.  I grew up in a family where my parents were really pissed when I quit.  My mom was retired but hated being a mom and wouldn't help with child care (after saying she would) and my child care feel through right before I went back to work and she wouldn't help for a few weeks so I could go back.  She resented me and still does for not going back but because I was home it allowed my husband to take better jobs every few years and work his way up.   I could handle all the things at home and help his family when his mom needed help and us not worry.  Women should have the choice if they can financially afford it.  My mom hated being a mom and doing the day to day caretaking.  I love it and see how it benefits my kids and husband but more importantly me.  I was miserable working.  I can easily keep myself busy and am far busier now than working as my focus is different.  I want to raise my kids and not be raised by nannies and day care like I was.[/quote]

The problem with your entire diatribe is that you confine this to women. All you talk about is you and your mom. What about your dad? What about your DH. Ask yourself why men are not asked to consider what’s best for their children when they make choices about their careers?

Sounds like you have issues wIth your mom specific to you and not to an argument about women’s advancement.

And how many men are miserable working?  Quite a few I’d guess.  Why do they have automatically have keep slogging?[/quote]

Both of my parents were the same way and both selfish but my Dad more than my Mom.  My husband would love to stop working but he has higher income earning potential.  My husband has always made us the priority.  If I had wanted to work and we needed him to stay home, he would have gladly done it and is very good at it.  My husband does a lot and I have no complaints.  If your husband doesn't support you, then you have a spouse issue, not a societal issue just like I had a parent issue.   Women's advancement as well as Man's should be about many factors and choices.  [/quote]

Nothing wrong with my spouse. These are societal issues. [/quote]

Can we both agree that “society” has a lot of issues and isn’t necessarily that great?  
I don’t see the point of spending my life trying to conform with society in general.  It makes more sense to me to do what is right for my friends and family and people I meet than it is to fully conform and embrace the values of a society that I think we can all agree has issues.  [/quote]

Sigh. So you're saying that it's best for you to pay attention only to the decisions that affect you and your immediate family and friends? Do you not appreciate how myopic and troubling this position is? Do you really not see it? Since you say society isn't great you've decided that, rather than trying to do something about that, you'd rather just stick your head in the sand and do what's best for you. That is the heart and soul of the problem our country has right now, and it goes beyond women. It's such a disappointment that people like you are happy to just make sure the life they lead is happy and ignore everyone else.[/quote]

I guess that we will have to agree to disagree.  I cant pretend to know the hearts and souls of 300 million people.  And I really don’t see how myopic and troubling it is.  
Since I have decided that society is not great, I don’t have to look to what other people are doing to guide my decisions.  It isn’t about making myself happy, but about doing what’s actual right for my family, friends, neighbors, and community.  I don’t think I can fix society, but I don’t have to buy into it.  
[/quote]

Cool, cool. Be sure to let people facing sexism, racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and a whole host of other societal problems that you just couldn't be bothered to care about their plight. I just can't agree to disagree with that kind of selfish thinking.[/quote]

What’s myopic is taking your own personal experience and extrapolating that to everyone, regardless of their own lives and experiences.  
Real people don’t fit into boxes, and they are more than the categories you want to place them in.   Why are you more worried about imagined groups of people facing racism, than the real people you meet and encounter day to day and the problems they are facing?  You are like the priest running past the homeless man on his way to give a sermon.  Granted.  Giving the sermon is easier.  
You don’t really know how millions of people should lead their day to day lives, what “all women” should do, or how to end xenophobia.  That’s ludicrous.  All you can do is figure out what you believe is right and live it day to day.  
[/quote]

What are you babbling on about? You're the one who said you couldn't look past the end of your own nose...[/quote]

You think every woman should work, right?  Because that’s what is pushing us forward towards some kind of ideal with more equality or more flexible jobs?  That the societal pressure women feel to work is good.  But here is the thing... society isn’t that great, it’s far from ideal, and there is no reason to have to follow societal norms and pressures.  It only makes sense to do the right thing as you see it for the real people and problems in your real life.  That doesn’t mean ignoring sexism, it means making it personal.  Stop making it so abstract.

You don’t know what the right, moral, and valuable thing is for a room of 50 women, let alone 50,000 or 50 million.  You can’t say that all SAHMs are good, bad, right, or wrong.  You have no idea.

[/quote]

I'm the PP to whom you are responding and no, I don't think every woman should work. What I do think should happen is that both men and women need to fight for more equality in the work place. I had a male boss at a Big4 firm who thought that he was a great dad because he was able to say goodnight to his kids before they went to bed at night. Literally did not see his children in the morning because he left before they woke up and only saw them once they were in bed at the end of the day, every day, but he patted himself on the back for being a super-involved dad. After he was an ass when I had a child-related issue when my husband had just had surgery and was still in the hospital and needed to come into work three hours late, I went to the managing partner and explained that his expectations of ALL parents, not just moms, was unrealistic. I got a raise, a promotion, and the ability to work from home whenever I wanted. I still had the same billable hour requirements, so it's not like my work load changed, but the conditions under which I had to work sure did. Men who don't ask for flexibility that allows them to be present parents, and women who don't fight harder to force employers to be more forgiving are doing nothing but reaffirming the toxic culture that still exists in many places. So my issue is with people, men and women, who don't try harder to make their workplace a better situation for all parents. You want to just bury your head in the sand and say, well, I'd rather just stay at home and let my husband work and who cares about everyone else. I think, personally, that that's a disgusting selfish view of the world. So I never said that all SAHMs are anything. You're the one who has no idea beyond the own four walls of your house, but it's really rich that you want to lecture me on not knowing what's right for everyone when all I said was that everyone should be able to make the choice that works best for them when you are failing to ignore that some women want to choose to work but can't.[/quote]

So much to unpack but in short you want everyone to care about the issue you care most about with the same level of passion and fervor. That isn't going to happen. Lots of people care about a lot of different things the improve the world. Sure, I support workplace equality but that's not my passion and MY cause. I care about climate change, healthcare access and equality and animal rights. You might care less about those things. What I can assure you is that insulting and bullying people because they don't share you passion is NOT the way to bring people to your cause. [/quote]

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