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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

(1) Any decent program uses testing as part of its placement.  Your research you cited implies that is not the case.

(2) it’s ridiculous to say that “every” single time it has been done, it has been done horribly wrongly.  Anyone who has been in G&T or Advanced classes would likely say that the classes were overall above-average.  How do people know that their anecdotes don’t jibe with your assertion ? Because students know their peers!  I can guarantee that most of the people with the highest SAT/ACT/CAT/whatever scores at my school were in the advanced classes, and no people in the advanced classes had terrible test scores.  Schools have this information!

(3) You are wrong in saying that, according to your research, people in the lowest group had higher test scores than the highest group. But actually what it said is that a handful of people in the lowest group scored higher than some of the people in the medium-high group — not the highest!  (Note that there were 4 levels, not 3.)  As I said above, whatever errors in themiddle, the program studied still had the most struggling and the most high-achieving students in different, so it wasn’t completely, horribly upside diwn, as you argue.

(4)  Why don’t you respond to the substance of the (more recent) research posted by the other poster?
[/quote]

Your reading comprehension is ... limited.

&gt;(1) Any decent program uses testing as part of its placement.  Your research you cited implies that is not the case.
No, the research showed that the OUTCOME was a failure.  Kids who tested well on the tests given as part of the huge study I cited were in the wrong classes, and kids who tested poorly were too.  It was a huge, international study and covered schools with lots of ways of assigning kids to tiered classes.

&gt;(2) it’s ridiculous to say that “every” single time it has been done, it has been done horribly wrongly.
Jesus, learn to read.  Every time it's been STUDIED, the results have been the same.  You're not a data person, huh?

&gt;(3) You are wrong in saying that, according to your research, people in the lowest group had higher test scores than the highest group. 
No, I'm not:  &quot;In addition, Kifer and colleagues found that[b] 5 of the 23 remedial classes had higher mean scores than[/b] 75 percent of the students in general math, 50 percent of the students in pre-algebra, and [b]25 percent of the students in algebra[/b].&quot;

The class levels were remedial, regular, enriched, and algebra.  Algebra was the highest of the 4 levels.  So on average, more than 21% of remedial classes (lowest level) had higher median scores than 1/4 of the kids in algebra (the highest level).

Here's the link -- looks like it was deleted:  http://www.ascd.org/publications/books/108013/chapters/What-Tracking-Is-and-How-to-Start-Dismantling-It.aspx

[/quote]

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