Reply to Is there a difference between Columbia,Penn and Dartmouth,Brown,Cornell ?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote] [quote]NP. Penn is still higher ranked [b]in the public eye,[/b] and it’s on more US and international rankings, than Brown or Dartmouth. Whatever you think of deoaetmentsnon a case-by-case basis, these rankings generally go for broader academic gestalt.  I can’t believe we’re still discussing this. [/quote]

News flash for the Penn booster.... there is no one "public eye". And lets be honest here, [b]most of the public doesn't know the difference[/b] between [b]UPenn[/b] and Penn State. 
I have degrees from HYP so no dog in this fight, just calling it the way I see it. [/quote]

When it comes to lay prestige, Harvard is the one ivy everybody recognizes, with Yale and Princeton being distant seconds. The uneducated and semi-educated masses do not know any of the other 5 ivies and know Penn State for college football. But why does that matter?  [b]People in sophisticated circles recognize Penn and the other non-HYP ivies and also recognize that Penn is a stronger school than Brown and Dartmouth, as shown by the myriad of different types of rankings out there, yield rates, cross-admit splits, endowments, fundraising etc.  I think by "public eye" the PP meant the educated people, not the unwashed masses.[/b]

Btw not being able to distinguish between Penn and Penn State or name the non-HYP ivies, says more about that person than it does about the schools. 
This is actually a very good test for gauging how sophisticated someone is. The first step would be for them to know the difference between Penn and Penn State. The second would be to know than it is Penn and not UPenn. All of my HYP acquaintances pass both tests...[/quote]

Once again, [b]this is entirely subjective and not backed by any verifiable evidence that can prove one school is "better"[/b] than the other. For example, where are your cross-admits splits?

I grew up in academic circles. My father was a college professor at a major university. Many of my classmates at school were also children of faculty and university administrators. Many more were children of the professions. In our circle Brown and Dartmouth were seen as more impressive than Penn outside Wharton - for undergraduates, because of the larger undergraduate focus of these universities relative to the larger Penn environment. I do remember a few discussions when it was said to go to Penn for grad school so there was recognition on that level. This is strictly in comparing Penn to the other Ivies for on the whole it is certainly an excellent university.

In the "sophisticated" circles you refer to, Harvard, followed by Yale, Princeton, Stanford and MIT are the schools that make people pause and nod. The rest of the Ivies, including Penn, are fine schools but no one is perceived "better" than the other.

Kid, Penn is a fine school. It really is. I'm sure you were happy there. But the college rankings game is so meaningless that it's shallow to keep crying about Penn being better than Dartmouth. It's making a big deal between a 98.5 and a 98.7 and obscures so many factors that are meaningless for undergraduates or graduates, depending on their divisions. [b]What impact does it have on the typical Penn student that there's a law school, compared to a typical Dartmouth student because Dartmouth doesn't have a law school?[/b] Penn has a good philosophy department but someone aiming for a philosophy PhD would pick Pittsburgh over Penn because that is one of the most impressive philosophy faculty in the world. Penn has a great city planning program in the school of design, but its career placement is no better than many state universities because most city planners go work for local cities and municipalities, so you're spending a fortune on a MCP that won't get you a higher salary or better jobs than a graduate from Rutger's city planning program. As a holder of two ivy diplomas, ivy degrees are like having a luxury car. It's nice to have one, there's a brand to it, but it's always silly to argue whether Mercedes is better than Audi, and last but not least, it really doesn't do the job any better than an ordinary Honda or Toyota. [/quote]

Better is a subjective term on its own. No one can say one ivy is better than the other with no further qualification. But what you can say is that Penn is a stronger school across the board for most disciplines. This is not subjective, this is a fact. In 99% of all available rankings out there whether it is college or research ranking, national or international, Penn does better than both Brown and Dartmouth. You can't just be dismissive of every ranking out there. HYPSM in general rank on top of most college rankings for a reason. Harvard, Stanford and MIT rank at the top of most research-focused ranking for a good reason. When looking at the aggregate level it is not random.

Re: cross admits. There are no 100% accurate data, although the parchment data in general get the dynamic right between peer schools. RD yields also tell a similar story. 
Re: law school. You can take law school courses as a Penn undergrad and you can even sub-matriculate into Penn Law and do a BA/JD. Could make a big difference if considering law school. 
Re: Pitt. yes but highly doubt that top faculty at Pitt take the time to teach undergrads or use them in their research. At Penn they do.

Re: "sophisticated circles".  I guess that varies a lot but in my immediate circles Brown and Dartmouth are seen as the easier, weaker ivies and are seen as less prestigious than Columbia and Penn. I agree people are most impressed only by HYPSM though.

I dont think anyone is saying "oh choose Penn or Columbia, if you choose Brown or Dartmouth you are really downgrading and you won't have opportunities." Ppl are just pointing out some objective ways in which these schools are stronger. i guess the smaller more intimate environment and undergrad focus are ways the other two are stronger. [/quote]

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