MarleySkye840 wrote:

Muslima wrote:Well we don't live in the jungle, and you don't have the right to kill 848+ people, injure 9370+ & demolish 10080+ houses because you're "scared"! One thing is sure, Palestinian children will not forget

+1

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muslima, I think you are over interpreting international law. Israel has the right to defend herself. Period.

That wasn't my interpretation but that of the International Court of Justice, not only that, the International Court of Justice said that Palestine had the right to resist occupation, you can take your arguments to them

International Court of Justice rejects Israeli self-defense

Rejecting the Israeli government arguments, the Court first found that the Article 51 right to self-defense “has no relevance” when the attacks on Israel, the occupying power, are from people living under Israeli rule rather than coming from a foreign state. The Court found:

Article 51 of the Charter thus recognizes the existence of an inherent right of self-defense in the case of armed attack by one State against another State. However, Israel does not claim that the attacks against it are imputable to a foreign State. The Court also notes that Israel exercises control in the Occupied Palestinian Territory and that, as Israel itself states, the threat which it regards as justifying the construction of the wall originates within, and not outside, that territory. . . Consequently, the Court concludes that Article 51 of the Charter has no relevance in this case.

The Court thus concluded that self-defense under Article 51 does not apply to an occupying power with respect to those living under occupation. Although Israel withdrew its illegal settlers from Gaza in 2005, Israel still controls all aspects of life in Gaza, including air, land and sea borders, and therefore Israel continues to be regarded as an occupying power over Gaza.

The decision that an occupying power cannot invoke Article 51 self-defense is complementary to provisions of the UN Charter, UN General Assembly Resolution 2625, and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights under which self-determination is a principle of international law.

More specifically, the decision is complementary to UN General Assembly Resolution 2649, adopted November 30, 1970, that “affirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples under colonial and alien domination recognized as being entitled to the right of self-determination to restore to themselves that right by any means at their disposal.” Resolution 2649 also “considers that the acquisition and retention of territory in contravention of the right of the people of that territory to self-determination is inadmissible and a gross violation of the Charter;” and “condemns those Governments that deny the right to self-determination of peoples recognized as being entitled to it, especially of the peoples of southern Africa and Palestine.”

The rejection of Israel’s Article 51 argument leaves Israeli forces and their US sponsors at risk of prosecution for the crime of aggression, the subject of another article.

Court Rejects Israeli argument that self-defense trumps international law

The Court also concluded that construction of the wall on occupied Palestinian land was not in conformance with applicable international law because the route of the wall across Palestinian territory was illegal. “The Court considers that Israel cannot rely on a right of self-defense or on a state of necessity in order to preclude the wrongfulness of the construction of the wall.” Thus, the Court established that defending its citizens does not relieve Israeli government officials of their responsibility to observe international law.

International law for an occupying power includes the responsibility to protect civilians living under occupation and their property and to provide for the humanitarian needs of the population living under the occupation. International humanitarian law requires all combatants to protect civilians and civilian property during any armed conflict.

Source: More can be read here : http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/12/27/why-the-self-defense-doctrine-doesnt-legitimize-israels-assault-on-gaza/

A December 24 report by Human Rights Watch, “Gaza: Palestinian Rockets Unlawfully Targeted Israeli Civilians” sharply criticizes Palestinian resistance groups that fired rockets at Israeli population centers:

Under international humanitarian law, or the laws of war, civilians and civilian structures may not be subject to deliberate attacks or attacks that do not discriminate between civilians and military targets. Anyone who commits serious laws-of-war violations intentionally or recklessly is responsible for war crimes. . .

Anonymous wrote:I am trying to find an unbiased interpretation of these issues. I can find arguments to counter those arguments, but they are clearly biased by Israel. Similarly, this is biased against Israel.

Common sense tells me, no matter what, I can defend myself against an attack. Otherwise, Israel would be required to accept the repeated shelling of her cities and do nothing. I think the international law interpretation was dealing with action only within the occupied territories.

Anonymous wrote:

MarleySkye840 wrote:

Muslima wrote:Well we don't live in the jungle, and you don't have the right to kill 848+ people, injure 9370+ & demolish 10080+ houses because you're "scared"! One thing is sure, Palestinian children will not forget

+1

Then Hamas should stop acting like, and treating the people they govern, like animals. The IDF found - and set free- a mentally ill Palestinian man they found in Gaza. He was in chains.

Last week there was a six-year-old boy wandering in the street, with either autism or post-traumatic stress disorder, and he was screaming. It sounds awful, but somebody had tied him to a tree.

The International Committee of the Red Cross talked to the combatants, and it was arranged for an ambulance crew from the Palestinian Red Crescent Society to go to rescue him.

But when they went to save the child the crew was attacked and the driver shot dead."

- NHS Surgeon David Nott, yesterday in Gaza

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muslima, I think you are over interpreting international law. Israel has the right to defend herself. Period.

That wasn't my interpretation but that of the International Court of Justice, not only that, the International Court of Justice said that Palestine had the right to resist occupation, you can take your arguments to them

International Court of Justice rejects Israeli self-defense

Rejecting the Israeli government arguments, the Court first found that the Article 51 right to self-defense “has no relevance” when the attacks on Israel, the occupying power, are from people living under Israeli rule rather than coming from a foreign state. The Court found:

Article 51 of the Charter thus recognizes the existence of an inherent right of self-defense in the case of armed attack by one State against another State. However, Israel does not claim that the attacks against it are imputable to a foreign State. The Court also notes that Israel exercises control in the Occupied Palestinian Territory and that, as Israel itself states, the threat which it regards as justifying the construction of the wall originates within, and not outside, that territory. . . Consequently, the Court concludes that Article 51 of the Charter has no relevance in this case.

The Court thus concluded that self-defense under Article 51 does not apply to an occupying power with respect to those living under occupation. Although Israel withdrew its illegal settlers from Gaza in 2005, Israel still controls all aspects of life in Gaza, including air, land and sea borders, and therefore Israel continues to be regarded as an occupying power over Gaza.

The decision that an occupying power cannot invoke Article 51 self-defense is complementary to provisions of the UN Charter, UN General Assembly Resolution 2625, and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights under which self-determination is a principle of international law.

More specifically, the decision is complementary to UN General Assembly Resolution 2649, adopted November 30, 1970, that “affirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples under colonial and alien domination recognized as being entitled to the right of self-determination to restore to themselves that right by any means at their disposal.” Resolution 2649 also “considers that the acquisition and retention of territory in contravention of the right of the people of that territory to self-determination is inadmissible and a gross violation of the Charter;” and “condemns those Governments that deny the right to self-determination of peoples recognized as being entitled to it, especially of the peoples of southern Africa and Palestine.”

The rejection of Israel’s Article 51 argument leaves Israeli forces and their US sponsors at risk of prosecution for the crime of aggression, the subject of another article.

Court Rejects Israeli argument that self-defense trumps international law

The Court also concluded that construction of the wall on occupied Palestinian land was not in conformance with applicable international law because the route of the wall across Palestinian territory was illegal. “The Court considers that Israel cannot rely on a right of self-defense or on a state of necessity in order to preclude the wrongfulness of the construction of the wall.” Thus, the Court established that defending its citizens does not relieve Israeli government officials of their responsibility to observe international law.

International law for an occupying power includes the responsibility to protect civilians living under occupation and their property and to provide for the humanitarian needs of the population living under the occupation. International humanitarian law requires all combatants to protect civilians and civilian property during any armed conflict.

Source: More can be read here : http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/12/27/why-the-self-defense-doctrine-doesnt-legitimize-israels-assault-on-gaza/

Yet you neglect the section:

A December 24 report by Human Rights Watch, “Gaza: Palestinian Rockets Unlawfully Targeted Israeli Civilians” sharply criticizes Palestinian resistance groups that fired rockets at Israeli population centers:

Under international humanitarian law, or the laws of war, civilians and civilian structures may not be subject to deliberate attacks or attacks that do not discriminate between civilians and military targets. Anyone who commits serious laws-of-war violations intentionally or recklessly is responsible for war crimes. . .

So, while Israel should not be attacking, Hamas should not be firing towards Israel. That is saying that both sides are wrong....

Anonymous wrote:Mislima, Under international law, Israel has the right to defend itself. How is what is debatable. Israel can go after militants/militia, but not the general population.

Where it gets tricky is with civilian casualties because the weapon missed. If Israel targeted the shelter, then it is a war crime. If Israel targeted the militant that launched the missile, but the response missed...that is very unfortunate, but not necessarily a war crime.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

MarleySkye840 wrote:

Muslima wrote:Well we don't live in the jungle, and you don't have the right to kill 848+ people, injure 9370+ & demolish 10080+ houses because you're "scared"! One thing is sure, Palestinian children will not forget

+1

Then Hamas should stop acting like, and treating the people they govern, like animals. The IDF found - and set free- a mentally ill Palestinian man they found in Gaza. He was in chains.

And Hamas was the one who put him in chains? Wow, thank you IDF!!!!!!!

Last week there was a six-year-old boy wandering in the street, with either autism or post-traumatic stress disorder, and he was screaming. It sounds awful, but somebody had tied him to a tree.

The International Committee of the Red Cross talked to the combatants, and it was arranged for an ambulance crew from the Palestinian Red Crescent Society to go to rescue him.

But when they went to save the child the crew was attacked and the driver shot dead."

- NHS Surgeon David Nott, yesterday in Gaza

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2714424/It-s-like-Apocalypse-says-British-doctor-Gaza-In-harrowing-dispatch-heroic-NHS-surgeon-describes-horror-treating-child-bomb-victims-ceasefire.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

Anonymous wrote:Israeli PR script.

1. OK, we killed them, but they were terrorists.

2. OK, they were civilians, but they were being used as human shields.

3. OK, there were no fighters in the area, so it was our mistake, but it was an accident. They do it on purpose.

4. OK, we kill far more civilians than they do, but look at how terrible other countries are!

5. Why are you still talking about Israel? You must be an anti-Semite!

Reload, shell, and repeat to taste.