Freeman wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here- wow, I just posted this!

Ladies and gentlemen is completely fine. Female friends who address me and other female friends as "ladies" is totally fine.

I think the problem is that it's often used in situations where I see a tinge of sexism anyway. "Ladies, could you get us some coffee?" kind of things. Or maybe because I am aware of the sexism that more subtly takes place in the workplace I see no need to differentiate between me and the men I work with- yes, we're different because of our genders, but when you start treating me differently when asking me about work stuff I wonder what else is going on.

To be honest, it doesn't sound like the term "ladies" is what you really have the issue with, as much as other actions you've associated with it. If it was instead "Could you get us some coffee?" kinds of things, with no use of the term "ladies", would the situation be any more or less sexist? There's no need to treat genders differently, but I don't expect all forms of address to be completely gender neutral unless there is some other common title used to refer to a group.(Professor, Director, Doctor, Officer, etc.) If no suitable alternative exists, I don't think addressing a group of women as "Ladies" is inherently sexist. However, if I asked most of the ladies I know to get coffee when I was perfectly capable of getting it myself, they would tell me not only where I could find it, but also where I could shove it afterwards

Anonymous wrote:Seriously? The same way you would address anyone, gender mixed or not:

in person, primarily as "You"

or in emails,
"Hello, everyone"
"Dear team"
"Hi"

Freeman wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here- wow, I just posted this!

Ladies and gentlemen is completely fine. Female friends who address me and other female friends as "ladies" is totally fine.

I think the problem is that it's often used in situations where I see a tinge of sexism anyway. "Ladies, could you get us some coffee?" kind of things. Or maybe because I am aware of the sexism that more subtly takes place in the workplace I see no need to differentiate between me and the men I work with- yes, we're different because of our genders, but when you start treating me differently when asking me about work stuff I wonder what else is going on.

To be honest, it doesn't sound like the term "ladies" is what you really have the issue with, as much as other actions you've associated with it. If it was instead "Could you get us some coffee?" kinds of things, with no use of the term "ladies", would the situation be any more or less sexist? There's no need to treat genders differently, but I don't expect all forms of address to be completely gender neutral unless there is some other common title used to refer to a group.(Professor, Director, Doctor, Officer, etc.) If no suitable alternative exists, I don't think addressing a group of women as "Ladies" is inherently sexist. However, if I asked most of the ladies I know to get coffee when I was perfectly capable of getting it myself, they would tell me not only where I could find it, but also where I could shove it afterwards

Freeman wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously? The same way you would address anyone, gender mixed or not:

in person, primarily as "You"

or in emails,
"Hello, everyone"
"Dear team"
"Hi"

Again, I was referring to a professional or formal situation, and none of the examples you give are what I would consider suitable openings for those types of communications. For instance, press announcements are often started with "Ladies and gentlemen of the press..." Graduation speeches start with "Respected professors, fellow students, ladies, and gentlemen..." For those types of communications, in which someone is addressing a group in a more formal environment, what is a suitable alternative?

Anonymous wrote:Maybe you should address them as "Womyn".

I'd much rather be addressed as "Ladies", than other similar terms...

Anonymous wrote:I do think there is a difference when it's one man addressing a group of women. Just like "negro" was at one point neutral, it would be considered terribly racist today. Ladies isn't as extreme, but because we used to use "ladies" in the workplace to tell them to get coffee, dress cutely, and be a secretary only it might be time for a different term given the associations in that particular environment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think there is a difference when it's one man addressing a group of women. Just like "negro" was at one point neutral, it would be considered terribly racist today. Ladies isn't as extreme, but because we used to use "ladies" in the workplace to tell them to get coffee, dress cutely, and be a secretary only it might be time for a different term given the associations in that particular environment.

It would? Heavens me. It's just the Spanish word for "black." What are we supposed so say? Because "African-American" isn't always accurate, "nigger" is an epithet, "colored" just sounds prejudiced. How about, "you people?'