Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To bring this full circle, I agree that (i) inability to discharge loans in bankruptcy, (ii) loose (OK, nonexistent) lending standards, and (iii) consolidation of federal loans into a 30-year repayment program all conspire drive tuition increases at a rate that far exceeds inflation. Students don't care how much they take out because they can repay it for a fairly small monthly payment over 30 years and, let's face it, most of them are 18 years old and idiots, lenders don't care about even basic underwriting because there's no way for the students to avoid repayment absent death, and schools don't care about raising tuition because they KNOW lenders will lend the full amounts.

The income based repayment program is just another way to minimize the consequences of excessive borrowing. Now, the risk is all on the students - this shifts it onto the taxpayers. Now, NO one has an incentive to acr responsibly, even the borrowers.

I'm pretty liberal, but I also have a 5 yo daughter, and I'd like some rationality returned to the system in the next 12 years or so. This program doesn't do that - it exacerbates the problem.

You wouldn't need all the above changes if students would pick a major that had the ability to make money and pay their loan off.

I am the OP. I am sick of hearing about pick the 'right major'...and I am a Science Major! My dad suggested I go that route instead of my other love, English. I had an equal love for Biotech/Genetics and English- but he was correct in that was marketable and I have done really well for myself. But- what if English was my only interest? Aren't we in need of good English teachers? We really do need the Liberal Arts! There are tons of 'thankless' people that willingly enter into these majors knowing that they will not become rich and I think that is respectable. Maybe there should be an intelligence test and not everyone should be taking out loans to go to college in the first place, e..g, French system, other Euro countries, etc. Maybe we need more legit trade/vocational schools. There are many American kids that are partying at low-rate schools and doing nothing else and then come out with 'worthless' degrees and major debt. I think that is a student problem and not the major. I don't think we cut off all liberal arts and I get angry each time I read that. Where are we as a culture without the arts?

Truthfully, the loan/aid program stays the way it is and no matter what your major- you will not be able to pay back your loan!! FWIW, do we really need more lawyers for that matter? Many can't practice medicine due to the high cost of malpractice insurance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To bring this full circle, I agree that (i) inability to discharge loans in bankruptcy, (ii) loose (OK, nonexistent) lending standards, and (iii) consolidation of federal loans into a 30-year repayment program all conspire drive tuition increases at a rate that far exceeds inflation. Students don't care how much they take out because they can repay it for a fairly small monthly payment over 30 years and, let's face it, most of them are 18 years old and idiots, lenders don't care about even basic underwriting because there's no way for the students to avoid repayment absent death, and schools don't care about raising tuition because they KNOW lenders will lend the full amounts.

The income based repayment program is just another way to minimize the consequences of excessive borrowing. Now, the risk is all on the students - this shifts it onto the taxpayers. Now, NO one has an incentive to acr responsibly, even the borrowers.

I'm pretty liberal, but I also have a 5 yo daughter, and I'd like some rationality returned to the system in the next 12 years or so. This program doesn't do that - it exacerbates the problem.

You wouldn't need all the above changes if students would pick a major that had the ability to make money and pay their loan off.

I am the OP. I am sick of hearing about pick the 'right major'...and I am a Science Major! My dad suggested I go that route instead of my other love, English. I had an equal love for Biotech/Genetics and English- but he was correct in that was marketable and I have done really well for myself. But- what if English was my only interest? Aren't we in need of good English teachers? We really do need the Liberal Arts! There are tons of 'thankless' people that willingly enter into these majors knowing that they will not become rich and I think that is respectable. Maybe there should be an intelligence test and not everyone should be taking out loans to go to college in the first place, e..g, French system, other Euro countries, etc. Maybe we need more legit trade/vocational schools. There are many American kids that are partying at low-rate schools and doing nothing else and then come out with 'worthless' degrees and major debt. I think that is a student problem and not the major. I don't think we cut off all liberal arts and I get angry each time I read that. Where are we as a culture without the arts?

Truthfully, the loan/aid program stays the way it is and no matter what your major- you will not be able to pay back your loan!! FWIW, do we really need more lawyers for that matter? Many can't practice medicine due to the high cost of malpractice insurance.

Right now there are too many the vacant jobs that skillset our college graduates aren't graduating with.

Anonymous wrote:

create an incentive by mandating higher interest rates on degrees that don't pay well. I don't understand how you can charge the same amount of money for every major where as 3/4 of them are worthless and low paying.

I dunno - my history degree led me to law school, and I'm doing pretty well - better than the guys working in our IT department, I assure you. Many of my liberal arts classmates went on to consulting jobs, which don't exactly require you to lie on ramen, either (unless David Chang is preparing it).

Point being, it's not quite so simple as you make it out to be. Wait a minute - reducing complex situations to absurdly simple solutions . . . who knoew Herman Cain frequented DCUM? Don't you have other things to deal with today?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To bring this full circle, I agree that (i) inability to discharge loans in bankruptcy, (ii) loose (OK, nonexistent) lending standards, and (iii) consolidation of federal loans into a 30-year repayment program all conspire drive tuition increases at a rate that far exceeds inflation. Students don't care how much they take out because they can repay it for a fairly small monthly payment over 30 years and, let's face it, most of them are 18 years old and idiots, lenders don't care about even basic underwriting because there's no way for the students to avoid repayment absent death, and schools don't care about raising tuition because they KNOW lenders will lend the full amounts.

The income based repayment program is just another way to minimize the consequences of excessive borrowing. Now, the risk is all on the students - this shifts it onto the taxpayers. Now, NO one has an incentive to acr responsibly, even the borrowers.

I'm pretty liberal, but I also have a 5 yo daughter, and I'd like some rationality returned to the system in the next 12 years or so. This program doesn't do that - it exacerbates the problem.

You wouldn't need all the above changes if students would pick a major that had the ability to make money and pay their loan off.

I am the OP. I am sick of hearing about pick the 'right major'...and I am a Science Major! My dad suggested I go that route instead of my other love, English. I had an equal love for Biotech/Genetics and English- but he was correct in that was marketable and I have done really well for myself. But- what if English was my only interest? Aren't we in need of good English teachers? We really do need the Liberal Arts! There are tons of 'thankless' people that willingly enter into these majors knowing that they will not become rich and I think that is respectable. Maybe there should be an intelligence test and not everyone should be taking out loans to go to college in the first place, e..g, French system, other Euro countries, etc. Maybe we need more legit trade/vocational schools. There are many American kids that are partying at low-rate schools and doing nothing else and then come out with 'worthless' degrees and major debt. I think that is a student problem and not the major. I don't think we cut off all liberal arts and I get angry each time I read that. Where are we as a culture without the arts?

Truthfully, the loan/aid program stays the way it is and no matter what your major- you will not be able to pay back your loan!! FWIW, do we really need more lawyers for that matter? Many can't practice medicine due to the high cost of malpractice insurance.

Right now there are too many the vacant jobs that skillset our college graduates aren't graduating with.

LOL, there goes my lack of English grammar, you caught me! But anyways what I am trying to say is that, there are alot of vacant jobs because our college graduates are not graduating in majors that can fill those vacant job's skillsets.

Anonymous wrote:create an incentive by mandating higher interest rates on degrees that don't pay well. I don't understand how you can charge the same amount of money for every major where as 3/4 of them are worthless and low paying.

Anonymous wrote:Maybe there should be an intelligence test and not everyone should be taking out loans to go to college in the first place, e..g, French system, other Euro countries, etc. Maybe we need more legit trade/vocational schools. There are many American kids that are partying at low-rate schools and doing nothing else and then come out with 'worthless' degrees and major debt. I think that is a student problem and not the major.

Anonymous wrote:Where are we as a culture without the arts?

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, do we really need more lawyers for that matter? Many can't practice medicine due to the high cost of malpractice insurance.

Anonymous wrote:Look, if you didn't go into law school, you would be screwed and probably marching on wall street. When you borrow money from the bank to build a house or buy a house there is a long process to verify your income, ability to pay it back, the value of the product be loaned too, what career you are going into, and the potential salary. In your case I would make some type of promisary note indicating that you would be offered a good rate on your liberal arts degree IF you promised to go law school afterwards. This gives the lender a much better chance of being repaid.

What is the problem?

TheManWithAUsername wrote:

Anonymous wrote:create an incentive by mandating higher interest rates on degrees that don't pay well. I don't understand how you can charge the same amount of money for every major where as 3/4 of them are worthless and low paying.

I assume you're the same person advocating for taxing the poor more to discourage poverty. I have to give you points for originality; I can't think of any ideology with which your crackpot ideas fit.

We could adopt a completely free market in student loans, no bankruptcy protection, and debtors' prison, and that would make more sense than your nuttiness.

TheManWithAUsername wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am currently earning 6 figures on a theology major. I don't see why I should pay a higher interest rate than some underemployed IT major just because you think you know who is going to be successful in life. You really have a problem with bitterness.

I moved this from the metathread.

I won't defend the other PP's ideas, but I think the response to this is that the question should be, "Why should the government subsidize theology and other liberal arts degrees?" (The subsidy here is in the guarantee of the loan.) I support government investment in the hard sciences, but generally not in the liberal arts.

Anonymous wrote:

TheManWithAUsername wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am currently earning 6 figures on a theology major. I don't see why I should pay a higher interest rate than some underemployed IT major just because you think you know who is going to be successful in life. You really have a problem with bitterness.

I moved this from the metathread.

I won't defend the other PP's ideas, but I think the response to this is that the question should be, "Why should the government subsidize theology and other liberal arts degrees?" (The subsidy here is in the guarantee of the loan.) I support government investment in the hard sciences, but generally not in the liberal arts.

Theology major again. I now do research and analysis that helps government work better and be less wasteful and saves the Feds money! Are you saying that my work is less important than what a scientist does? Again, responding to the earlier pp's complaint, why should I have to pay more for my education than the guy who sets up computers in my office? I don't begrudge him whatever salary he makes but he does not deserve a lower interest rate on student loans than I do.

create an incentive by mandating higher interest rates on degrees that don't pay well. I don't understand how you can charge the same amount of money for every major where as 3/4 of them are worthless and low paying.